Moody 54 Maintenance Issues

[Dockhead]

I've been getting messages offline from Moody 54 owners about various technical issues which I thought would be more productively discussed in a thread, so others can chip in and others can benefit from the discussion.


"I get s fair amount of fresh water in the bilges, the main bilge above the keel and the aft bilges, sometime working through to the engine bilge. It is always fresh water.

"Main bilge - it must be rain water as there is still water ingress (I assume from the mast??) as it still happens out of the water with empty fresh water tanks. Any weak spots you know of that are prone to letting in rain water?

"Aft bilges - I am pretty sure this is water on the deck (fresh or salt) that is overloading the existing drains, running back to the lazarette, overloading its drains and then leaking into the lazarette bildge. We recently had some very heavy rain storms whilst hauled out and again, water making its way into the aft bilge and then seeping through to the engine bilge. Is this a problem you have faced and if so have you overcome it"

[Dockhead]

I have the same issues and in fact just last night was thinking again about installing a maintenance pump.


I think it's inherent to the design, exacerbated by lack of limber holes in some places.



You should by all means also check the bilge where the speed log and depth gauges are mounted, just forward of the mast under one of the corridor sole plates.



I pump this out with a manual pump and bucket regularly; also the bilge under the master cabin sole, between the bunk and the engine room bulkhead. If you let water stand there the wiring to your main hull anode will corrode. Don't ask me how I know.



Also check under the floor of the lazarette. This is a big PITA because you have to empty the laz then take out a bunch of screws securing the floor plates then haul them out, giving you access to the quadrant and autopilot. I find that not so much water gets in there that I need to do this more than once a year, but it needs to be done. At the same time you can inspect the hoses, pump, autopilot ram, steering cables, etc., all of which needs to be done once a year anyway.


What concerns the main bilge -- I replaced the standard bilge pump with a Whale Supersub, which gets more water out. This is a big job requiring removal of all the batteries and battery box and then a limber person (I used a young crewman) to reach down into the bilge, sponge it all out dry, then create a new fixing for the pump, and install it.


I consider the Supersub to be a maintenance pump. For volume pumping I installed a second bilge pump, a Rule 4000 behind the battery box. And then I keep a very large volume, 230v powered, crash pump -- basically a construction site trash pump -- ready to use in the bilge under the companionway. Paranoid about flooding a little? Guilty as charged. I have a second Supersub in the engine room to back up the manual pump (which never works except for six months after the last time I remade the valve seats, as it is made of mild alu and instantly corrodes -- replacing with a plastic one is on The List).

[Dockhead]

"One last question - how do I access the mast step and in particular all the cable connections running from the mast"


There is a teak covered steam bent plywood panel which encloses the mast where it is visible belowdecks. Lift it UP, and you can pull it over the base (to port) and remove it.


I had fits trying to figure this out the first time when I pulled my mast in 2013 to replace the standing rigging.

[Leesimonsmith]

Spot on regards the master cabin bilge, I clear that every few months. I generally thought that the water there is what is making its way through the limber holes (or cable runs) from the lazarette bilge.

The forward bilge (log & depth) stays quite dry on my boat. Other than when I need to pull the paddlewheel out to clear growth (2-3 times a year). A wholly unnatural task to make a hole in your boat, something that turns my stomach every time!

For consideration regards you installing a maintenance pump. I have a maintenance pump (220 Gulper) installed in the main bilge forward of the battery box. It is secured to the cross bulkhead with a flexible pipe into solid pipe that runs to the bottom of the bilge, very easy to install. I added a duck bill no return valve at the bottom of the solid pipe so the height of water between the bottom of the bilge and the pump doesn’t back flush once the pump is switched off. A couple of ‘U’ clips on the side of the bilge to hold the pipe in place, it can also be unclipped and moved around like a bilge vacuum cleaner. The flexi hose being long enough that it can also reach the bilge beneath the companionway steps, other side of the batteries.

I also have a 230v high volume crash pump installed in the bilge underneath the floor plate of the sofa corner behind the mast. The outlet pipe then rolled up in the storage space under the seat cover, can be unrolled as pushed out of one of the saloon hatches if need. Power up switches in the isolator box at the nav station.

There is a crudely installed 220 Gulper and float switch under the quadrant, the float switch is loose, and water pick up location not great. So, on my list of jobs to do this winter. I’ve had a goo experience fitting Whale BE9003 float switches in my grey water boxes. They are solid state and work off changes in their electrical field, so are less prone to wear and sticking as with mechanical float switches.

I think I’ll follow your lead regards changing maintenance pumps to Supersub’s and adding one to the engine bay, perhaps even the master cabin bilge. I’ll also have a look at the main bilge pump and see if that needs upping or indeed a secondary. I am considering fitting 2 or 3x 1 ½” recessed skin fittings through the deck, either side of the lazarette where water pools, to try and help clear deck water before it overwhelms the lazarette drains.

So, it seems more about water management that elimination. My keel boats are completely painted, but crevice corrosion is always a concern where there is water and oxygen starvation around stainless steel.

Regardless, I love the M54, it’s a great boat.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Leesimonsmith

. . . For consideration regards you installing a maintenance pump. I have a maintenance pump (220 Gulper) installed in the main bilge forward of the battery box. It is secured to the cross bulkhead with a flexible pipe into solid pipe that runs to the bottom of the bilge, very easy to install. I added a duck bill no return valve at the bottom of the solid pipe so the height of water between the bottom of the bilge and the pump doesn’t back flush once the pump is switched off. A couple of ‘U’ clips on the side of the bilge to hold the pipe in place, it can also be unclipped and moved around like a bilge vacuum cleaner. The flexi hose being long enough that it can also reach the bilge beneath the companionway steps, other side of the batteries.

Hot tip, thanks! I may copy this great idea. I have water in the transducers bilge which I have to remove regularly; long enough hose and this will work for that too -- brilliant!

Originally Posted by Leesimonsmith

I also have a 230v high volume crash pump installed in the bilge underneath the floor plate of the sofa corner behind the mast. The outlet pipe then rolled up in the storage space under the seat cover, can be unrolled as pushed out of one of the saloon hatches if need. Power up switches in the isolator box at the nav station.

Ha, I'm not the only crazy person with such a pump.


I figure there is very little risk of actually needing it for my own boat; mine is loose in the bilge under the companionway and can be deployed to save someone else's boat if necessary -- a more likely use case, I think. I've practiced this -- swinging it from the end of the boom on a tackle to get it on board a boat lying alongside.

Originally Posted by Leesimonsmith

. . . So, on my list of jobs to do this winter. I’ve had a goo experience fitting Whale BE9003 float switches in my grey water boxes. They are solid state and work off changes in their electrical field, so are less prone to wear and sticking as with mechanical float switches.

Hot tip; thanks. I've been somewhat plagued by float switch failures in my gray water tanks now that the mercury ones are banned. The original mercury ones lasted nearly 20 years; but once they failed, the replacements don't seem to last more than a year or two. I'll order a couple of these.

Originally Posted by Leesimonsmith

I think I’ll follow your lead regards changing maintenance pumps to Supersub’s and adding one to the engine bay, perhaps even the master cabin bilge. I’ll also have a look at the main bilge pump and see if that needs upping or indeed a secondary. I am considering fitting 2 or 3x 1 ½” recessed skin fittings through the deck, either side of the lazarette where water pools, to try and help clear deck water before it overwhelms the lazarette drains.

You have water pooling on the quarters? I don't, nor do I have cases that I know of of the lazarette hatch drains being overwhelmed. Those are very capacious and with short large diameter hoses to below the transom platgorm.


Do you have a higher volume bilge pump in the main bilge? I installed a Rule 4000 just aft of the battery box with a short, large diameter discharge hose discharging through a new above the waterline through hull with the others on the port side. The original bilge pump with its small hose was replaced with a Supersub to become a maintenance pump.


But I am going to copy your setup with the Gulper and moveable hose. I have also been concerned about crevice corrosion on the stainless keel bolts which are normally under water since the Supersub won't get the last inch or so of water, something which has always bothered me.



Where does your Gulper maintenance pump discharge to?

[Leesimonsmith]

The gulper maintenance pump discharges out the port beam. Next to the water maker brine outlet there and the grey water discharge. I think the holding tank breather is there also (judging by the smell when the tank is used (need a new carbon filter)).

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Leesimonsmith

The gulper maintenance pump discharges out the port beam. Next to the water maker brine outlet there and the grey water discharge. I think the holding tank breather is there also (judging by the smell when the tank is used (need a new carbon filter)).

I see. I'm loathe to knock yet another hole in there, and in fact I'm not sure that there is any more room in the solid layup pad (all M54 through hulls go through special solid sections in the hull so they don't go through any coring).


What I have now there is: 1. large bilge pump (added by me); 2. gray water discharge #1, 3. Holding tank vent; 4. gray water discharge #2; 5. original bilge pump discharge.


Hmm. Need to think about this.

[rslifkin]

Not specific to the M54, but generally if you can fit and plumb them, it's hard to have too many bilge pumps. I like to see a small maintenance pump in any area where water can collect. Depending on the bilge layout and placement of limber holes, that can be anywhere from 1 to 3+ pumps per boat.

And then larger pumps placed based on where water will come from and end up in a major flooding situation. Certainly a big one in the main bilge, but if there are bilge areas near a shaft, rudder log, or thru hulls that could hold significant water or only have small limber holes to the main bilge, those areas should get a big backup pump as well.

Realistically, most boats are built with horribly inadequate pumps and no provisions provided for adding proper ones, so you may have to get creative, or deal with digging out and back-filling a bit of core to install a thru hull in a place the builder didn't intend to have one.

On my own boat I've changed the pump style and installation for 2 of the 3 original pumps as well as adding 2 more (and a high water alarm). And it's still not quite to where I think the system should be. But getting it the rest of the way there will be more challenging, as getting suitable bigger pumps into the area I think still needs one will be a bit tough.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Not specific to the M54, but generally if you can fit and plumb them, it's hard to have too many bilge pumps. I like to see a small maintenance pump in any area where water can collect. Depending on the bilge layout and placement of limber holes, that can be anywhere from 1 to 3+ pumps per boat.

And then larger pumps placed based on where water will come from and end up in a major flooding situation. Certainly a big one in the main bilge, but if there are bilge areas near a shaft, rudder log, or thru hulls that could hold significant water or only have small limber holes to the main bilge, those areas should get a big backup pump as well.

Realistically, most boats are built with horribly inadequate pumps and no provisions provided for adding proper ones, so you may have to get creative, or deal with digging out and back-filling a bit of core to install a thru hull in a place the builder didn't intend to have one.

On my own boat I've changed the pump style and installation for 2 of the 3 original pumps as well as adding 2 more (and a high water alarm). And it's still not quite to where I think the system should be. But getting it the rest of the way there will be more challenging, as getting suitable bigger pumps into the area I think still needs one will be a bit tough.

Thanks, interesting.


What kind of pumps do you use for really small maintenance pumps?

[Dockhead]

I guess one could use a micro diaphragm pump like this: https://www.amazon.com/HA24-60-Press...254899&sr=8-14





5l/minute is plenty for this application.



The small hose might be teed into a scupper drain (well above the water line) in order to avoid putting more holes in the side of the boat.


Might just put it on a timer and then the level sensor is not that critical.


Hmm.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Thanks, interesting.


What kind of pumps do you use for really small maintenance pumps?

2 of mine are the Whale Supersub auto pumps, 1 is a standard centrifugal that's original to the boat but still working perfectly after 38 years (that area is normally dry). I don't have any really small or awkward spots to suck water out of, but if I did a diaphragm pump would likely be the answer. The challenge becomes how to trigger a pump to remove a small amount of water.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

. . . The challenge becomes how to trigger a pump to remove a small amount of water.

Timer!

[Leesimonsmith]

Hi Dockhead,

Did you resolve your old cleat / fairlead issue? After a particularly stormy winter I have the same problem with the bow cleat. I have purchased Osculati fairleads to install on top of the new cap rail. Hopefully that will prevent reoccurrence. Not a great design point for the M54!

[Dockhead]

Yes, I now have lovely roller fairleads, inspired by the Discovery 67 of my friend.


When I have a chance I'll snap a pic and post it.


Highly recommended mod.

[Leesimonsmith]

Hi DH,

Appreciate any pictures, had the shipwright down last week, whilst he can do the top rail replacement, he was not sure I would have the space for the fairleads I have. So, I am looking for robust ideas.

I have pulled the engine and generator out. Will be installing a new Yanmar 4J110 and having a major service / rebuild on the generator. The electrician tells me the placement of the 24v and 12v battery chargers is bad in the engine bay due to heat and accessibility. I get his point, but he is recommending moving the electronics into one of the aft cabin wardrobes, not ideal. Pic's below, are the location of the chargers standard in all M54's?

The electrician also recommended changing out the 12v charger RM2010, which he claimed was an explosive fire risk. Apparently, known issues with that model as it gets old.