Manual Head vs electric

[kmarsicola]

I put in two TMC electric heads last year for the same reason on our 43' sailboat. I just removed them both because they are just not very good. I replaced them with manual heads and we are so much happier with the performance, cleanliness and simple technology.
Unless you're going full-blown vacuflush fresh-water electric heads, don't do it. And if you do get electric heads, do not buy TMC brand.
Happy flushing! Keith

[GILow]

Originally Posted by kmarsicola

I put in two TMC electric heads last year for the same reason on our 43' sailboat. I just removed them both because they are just not very good.

What sort of problems did you have with the TMCs? Curious because that’s what I’ve fitted. Only a year old and no problems so far, but maybe I should be worried?

[kmarsicola]

TMC has 1" fitting for water hose intake, as well as 1" discharge hose. I have 3/4" hose coming in and 1-1/2" discharge hose going out, so I needed adapters. Most boats have the same hose sizes as I do, so unless one wants to change thru hulls to 1", just not a good fit. Water doesn't come in very good, and flushing is never complete because of the adapted fit up.
With that said, if your boat is all plumbed to 1" in and out, then maybe they work better.
K

[Sofa King Fishy]

I literally just replaced my manual Jabsco with a Raritan Marine Elegance. It’s a HUGE step up as far as making the vessel more like ‘home’. I was surprised at how involved the installation was. Go with the ‘SeaFlow’ option- the head switches between fresh & sea water- I highly recommend this feature if you’re actually cruising and not in the marina. I installed a simple momentary’on/off’ push button to keep the cost down. I replaced the owners cabin head, but definitely see the advantages for guests. Expect to spend $1000 on the head and if you’re subbing the install it can easily be another $1k.

[kelpline]

On our grizzly bear tour boats we used raw water electric Jabscos, with a sign in 7 languages to press the button for a count of 10, and use a small bin for toilet paper. 3000 people a year. Only the children plugged it, so we would try to get the parents to instruct their children on its use.

[JimmyDarci]

Two thoughts on this discussion:
1. Simpler is always better. I’ve stood am inch deep in poop water fixing a head while on charter in Caribbean. Simple is peace of mind and less money.
2. Are we limiting simplicity to the electric v manual.l? While a bucket is perhaps the simplest method and likely illegal where you are, we have composting toilets that are awesome! Two small fans hooked up to composting heads and seriously no smell in either pontoon or our 46’ catamaran. Different thread for sure, but if you want simple, virtually no smell and affordability of upkeep, this is IMHO the way to go. We are a commercial charter 6 days a week and so plenty of amateur boaters peeing, etc. Simple rules posted for guests: all must sit to pee and we use a splash of bleach in the urine collector so no gross germs when emptying. Over 300 satisfied customers in a season and nobody has ever bitched about the type of toilet. Many have actually complemented us on how it is surprisingly easy and no smells. (See other threads for.more on this third option).
Oh yes, and we save space and weight because no holding tanks apart from the heads. Of your two preliminary options, simple and manual is my vote.

[ascarr]

I can only share my personal experience here but....

Manual vs Electric

Cost upfront for Electric if doing it your self:

Toilet between $600.00 and $1000.00 depends entirely on what you want large range of products.

Fresh water pump? If your boat has good water pressure already from your fresh water pump this is just finding a fresh water place to put a new tap in to give you a fresh water line to your toilet which typically has a sink already in the head so this was no an issue / problem for me.

We choose not to go with salt water option etc as the whole purpose for replacing and going with a fresh water is to keep the smell down in the head. That is where people are spending easily $200 a year on junk chemicals to treat / cover the odor an any water manual pump gives off due to the water your pulling in, salt scaling, etc...

You have to run power to the head if there was nothing there. Simple 12 Volt for my setup was not difficult to do. Parts and wire under $50 spent.

Poo Tube.... Here is where your cost may vary a bit it all depends on the length of tube you need to go from the new toilet up to your holding tank. Yes you must replace that line if you have an original tube build at least on our boat they used old crappy tubing that eventually holds onto the most God awful smells in the line etc... It was about $12.00 a foot at Blackburn and or West Marine I needed about 20 ft of this newer non permeable toilet tubing so spent around $250.00 with tax etc....

Now comes the cost of labor... I had 3 companies come out and quote this job using various electric heads and so forth... all between $2800.00 and $3000.00 I paid about $750 for my Tecma installed all said came out to around $1100.00 with beer and food included along with laundry and clean up from the smells... was it worth saving $2000.00 nearly doing it my way? Oh hell yeah. But that was just my experience...

We are now going to change out one of the guest heads with electric as well just to cut down on that darn sewer stench. The cost of cleaning chemicals trying to treat the older manual flush heads I think in 10 years will recoup the initial investment into it and since this head is going to have a much smaller hose need only 5 FT it will cost even less.

I still recommend leaving 1 manual pump head on your boat for the just in case's sort of a deal but I am going to replace the nasty stinky arse tubing on that head and put in another newer manual toilet there as well just so my wife does not complain about the boat stinking like a truck drivers bathroom at a Flying J sort of way :P

Good luck on your own sailing shi.ing adventures and my the wind be at your back and smooth waters forever ahead.

[kmarsicola]

One more thought on this discussion... One of the manual heads I put in is the Groco K-series. It's a $1700 manual toilet, can be bought for $1200 if you shop it. It is by far, the most incredible marine head in the world. I think it beats the crap (no pun intended) out of any other manual or electric head. It's the bomb!

[Lineguy]

A few years ago replace our Jabsco manual with a Jabsco electric. First time we used it it backed up. I took it apart(nasty job while afloat) and found that the joker valve wasn't seated squarely from factory....It has been trouble-free since.

[psaltydogs]

Check out the Lavac head. Only moving parts are the seat and lid. Very difficult to clog up this head, which I have never had happen. The external pump is also nearly fool-proof. Even so, I do the flushing on board. I understand it can be electrified quite easily; not sure if the electric pump is in line after the manual or if the manual pump has to go. The Lavac head is British genius at its best.

[CyKlop]

I think a lot of the decision is based on what you're planning on doing. If I'm crossing an ocean, I want to either have a spare head or I want to be able to fix the one I have. A manual pump is, for me, a much easier fix, a better chance of being able to fix it, than an electric one, and that makes the decision simple for me.

If, on the other hand, I was always a day of less from somewhere I can pick up parts, or I have room on board to store extra parts, then I might opt for an electric one because it's easier on my guests.

Maybe the best solution is a manual one for me in my master cabin, and an electric one in the main salon for the guests.

[rslifkin]

With something modular like a Sea Era or some of the other electric heads, you can buy just the base unit without the bowl. Given a bit of storage space, you could store a whole extra assembly as a spare rather than just parts.

[cygnus]

Originally Posted by jamrocksailing

Hi,

We currently have a manual pump head and looking to change it to an electric. For us its fine as a family, its really if we have friends on the yacht, just easier for them.

Be good to hear some pros and cons for both before we make the final decision.

Look forward to the responses.

I have a Manual Raritan, Got the Elec. adapter for my guests. Works great. when they leave I switch it over to manual, takes about 2 minutes.

[nofacey]

Haven’t seen Vacuflush mentioned once, so I’ll speak up - don’t.

Have two standard Vacuflush units aboard, freshwater flushed, both going thru a holding tank. First couple of years, no issue. Then I had to replace the duckbill valves in the vacuum generator - and have never stopped since. Some duckbills last a season, some only a couple of months....none are going 2 years on a full time cruiser.

And I’m not alone....couple buddies with same head are experiencing the same issue...duckbills simply not lasting like they used to.

And I’ve jumped over my spares, bought stock brought in for me, with no difference.

Either they switched suppliers, and the newer ones aren’t up to snuff, or there’s a central warehouse in a hot climate that is baking all the stock before it ever gets out.....whatever changed, I simply can’t get an excellent duckbill any more, and changing the damn bits gets tiresome.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by flyingfin

Hmmmm,.......... motors, electrical connections, switches, battery supplied power cables - all operating in a wet marine environment, and most buried in the bilge. Tell me again where the simpler stuff is?

EXACTLY!

It is bad enough keeping your manual toilet working without adding electrical connections, pumps, etc to the mix. Great when it is new but in a few years it will be needing some work, guaranteed.

I've seen enough people taking apart such systems to know I don't want to do that.

The main thing that reduces toilet and pipe issues is using fresh water. (But I don't have that much fresh water).