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Old 08-06-2020, 03:46   #1
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Liveaboard blue water boat: Nauticat 44 or Amel Super Maramu?

Hi everyone!

We are a couple looking for a liveaboard blue water boat to cross oceans.

We really like the Nauticat 44's layout, but we have some doubts about the safety of the boat into blue waters (ballast/displacement).

We are sure about the Amel's safety, but it looks too much big and expensive to manage for a couple.

Other option could be the Hallberg Rassy 42 F, but it doesn't look comfortable for living aboard.

Hope to hear some advices and opinions about owners of these models that can help us trough this important decision.

Thank you and good winds!!
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Old 08-06-2020, 07:56   #2
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Re: Liveaboard blue water boat: Nauticat 44 or Amel Super Maramu?

What years of these particular boats are you looking at? I know you aren't looking to buy new, since Nauticat 44s aren't made anymore.

Both the Nauticat and Amel are ketches, I believe that is the proper term, and have a mizzenmast. The Hallberg-Rassy is a sloop with only a main and a jib so that might be easier for a cruising couple. All of them should be perfectly safe. Never sailed on a Nauticat but it has a long keel, and so would probably be the most comfortable for long voyages. It is also a motorsailer though, so by my guess it would be a little slower to sail than the other two choices though. Still, I would love the comfort and visibility of the pilothouse in bad weather.

You can add an enclosure on the other boats, which is almost the same thing, but still not quite as cozy as a true pilothouse.

On balance, I would probably go with the Nauticat, but that's assuming a fictional scenario where everything else is equal, all three boats are in the exact same condition and are equipped the same way.
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Old 08-06-2020, 08:21   #3
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Re: Liveaboard blue water boat: Nauticat 44 or Amel Super Maramu?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohan View Post
What years of these particular boats are you looking at? I know you aren't looking to buy new, since Nauticat 44s aren't made anymore.

Both the Nauticat and Amel are ketches, I believe that is the proper term, and have a mizzenmast. The Hallberg-Rassy is a sloop with only a main and a jib so that might be easier for a cruising couple. All of them should be perfectly safe. Never sailed on a Nauticat but it has a long keel, and so would probably be the most comfortable for long voyages. It is also a motorsailer though, so by my guess it would be a little slower to sail than the other two choices though. Still, I would love the comfort and visibility of the pilothouse in bad weather.

You can add an enclosure on the other boats, which is almost the same thing, but still not quite as cozy as a true pilothouse.

On balance, I would probably go with the Nauticat, but that's assuming a fictional scenario where everything else is equal, all three boats are in the exact same condition and are equipped the same way.

Neither of these boats is too large for a couple. We have no problem handling our '47 by ourselves. It's hard to beat the Amel for safety. And they have a cult following. Either you love them or you don't.
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Old 08-06-2020, 09:05   #4
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Re: Liveaboard blue water boat: Nauticat 44 or Amel Super Maramu?

Thanks everyone for your reply!

All the three boats are in good conditions, the Amel is a little bit older (year 1999) but completely refitted in 2019 with new rigging, new sails, new solar panels, etc... but the Nauticat 44 is 2003, it's almost new, very lightly used, and the price is really interesting.

I am sure we can handle all these boats being a sailing couple, I tought about the Nauticat for the lower managing prices (ports, etc.).

The plan is to buy the boat in the Med, crossing the Atlantic ocean, one year in the Carribean and then crossing the Pacific to Fiji.

The only doubts I have are about the Nauticat safety in blue waters.
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Old 08-06-2020, 09:43   #5
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Re: Liveaboard blue water boat: Nauticat 44 or Amel Super Maramu?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zante74 View Post
Thanks everyone for your reply!

All the three boats are in good conditions, the Amel is a little bit older (year 1999) but completely refitted in 2019 with new rigging, new sails, new solar panels, etc... but the Nauticat 44 is 2003, it's almost new, very lightly used, and the price is really interesting.

I am sure we can handle all these boats being a sailing couple, I tought about the Nauticat for the lower managing prices (ports, etc.).

The plan is to buy the boat in the Med, crossing the Atlantic ocean, one year in the Carribean and then crossing the Pacific to Fiji.

The only doubts I have are about the Nauticat safety in blue waters.
We do love our Amel. Safe, and does passage sailing exceptionally well. A very comfortable live-aboard and long-range cruiser for us. The size really isn't an issue, the boat was designed from the drawing board to be handled by two people in any conditions.

It IS a systems heavy boat, and requires a good deal of care to keep everything running. It's probably not the boat of choice for someone who writes a check for all maintenance and repair work. The kind of sailor who doesn't maintain things, but fixes things when they break, will have a tough time. We spend a LOT of time on maintenance, and are rewarded by never having important things fail and leaving us stuck.

I had a dock neighbor in California who raced a Nauticat. Yes, raced, around the buoys and in ocean races. He did VERY well in the seasonal rankings because he finished every race he entered. It's amazing how entering every race and having no DNF's bumps up your ranking over boats that are supposed to be faster.

He also entered the Hawaii races. To get home he just motored the rumbline through the Pacific High.
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Old 08-06-2020, 09:44   #6
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Re: Liveaboard blue water boat: Nauticat 44 or Amel Super Maramu?

what is it you want to do with the boat? the Nauticat and an Amel SM are very different boats... neither is too big to be managed by a couple, but the specific details surrounding their layout/design may make one or the other slightly easier to do so.

Based on your description of a Bluewater boat to liveaboard and cross oceans you'd be hard pressed to find something more battle tested in that arena than the Amel, and there is a very large owners community out there to seek wisdom from.
  • The build quality of a Nauticat is definitely not the same level as the Amel.
  • The Nauticat has teak decks which are kind of a long term nightmare..especially if mechanically fastened.
  • If The Nauticat doesn't have a bow thruster, it would be very difficult to manage in tight quarters given the amount of windage due to her high freeboard.
  • the Nauticat has more of a pilot house approach vs. the Amel to it's layout... either this is something you really like or don't.

Congrats on being at the point to follow a dream! Good luck!

Cheers ,
-Justin
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Old 08-06-2020, 09:56   #7
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Re: Liveaboard blue water boat: Nauticat 44 or Amel Super Maramu?

Nothing wrong with a Nauticat, but it's more of a motorsailor.
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Old 08-06-2020, 10:57   #8
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Re: Liveaboard blue water boat: Nauticat 44 or Amel Super Maramu?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zante74 View Post
Thanks everyone for your reply!

All the three boats are in good conditions, the Amel is a little bit older (year 1999) but completely refitted in 2019 with new rigging, new sails, new solar panels, etc... but the Nauticat 44 is 2003, it's almost new, very lightly used, and the price is really interesting.

I am sure we can handle all these boats being a sailing couple, I tought about the Nauticat for the lower managing prices (ports, etc.).

The plan is to buy the boat in the Med, crossing the Atlantic ocean, one year in the Carribean and then crossing the Pacific to Fiji.

The only doubts I have are about the Nauticat safety in blue waters.
While all of these boats are blue water capable, I think I'd lean towards the Amel due to the complete recent refit. It's odd for somebody to do a refit and then sell the boat - must be some under laying reason for this sale - get a survey for sure. IMHO all of these boats have a critical flaw in that they sport teak decks (something which will cause problems) All of the higher end monohulls have teak decks which to me are an anachronism - non skid fiberglass is way more user friendly. I guess all the big names in yacht building feel that "yacthies" just need their teak.

Do plan on inviting an extra couple for the ocean crossings to aid in the 24/7 watch schedule you should be planning on. Aside from that any monohull under 70' should be capable of handling with just two people (most of the time, just one)
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Old 08-06-2020, 11:26   #9
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Re: Liveaboard blue water boat: Nauticat 44 or Amel Super Maramu?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joelhemington View Post
... IMHO all of these boats have a critical flaw in that they sport teak decks (something which will cause problems) All of the higher end monohulls have teak decks which to me are an anachronism - non skid fiberglass is way more user friendly. I guess all the big names in yacht building feel that "yacthies" just need their teak.
the Amel doesn't have teak decks.. it's a color tinted gel coat with the black "caulk" lines painted... zero maintenance.
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Old 08-06-2020, 14:35   #10
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Re: Liveaboard blue water boat: Nauticat 44 or Amel Super Maramu?

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Originally Posted by SVHarmonie View Post
We do love our Amel. Safe, and does passage sailing exceptionally well. A very comfortable live-aboard and long-range cruiser for us. The size really isn't an issue, the boat was designed from the drawing board to be handled by two people in any conditions.

It IS a systems heavy boat, and requires a good deal of care to keep everything running. It's probably not the boat of choice for someone who writes a check for all maintenance and repair work. The kind of sailor who doesn't maintain things, but fixes things when they break, will have a tough time. We spend a LOT of time on maintenance, and are rewarded by never having important things fail and leaving us stuck.

I had a dock neighbor in California who raced a Nauticat. Yes, raced, around the buoys and in ocean races. He did VERY well in the seasonal rankings because he finished every race he entered. It's amazing how entering every race and having no DNF's bumps up your ranking over boats that are supposed to be faster.

He also entered the Hawaii races. To get home he just motored the rumbline through the Pacific High.
Thank you for the information!

We love Amel boats, we have no doubts about their safety sailing. Our reflection is about the different annual managing costs, as for ports, etc.

The Nauticat 44 is really a good deal, that's why we are considering it so much, asking price 140k euros.
The Super Maramu option is a boat that has been refitted because it travelled for one year from the Med to the Caribbean, and after this experience they decided to sell it, asking price 190k euros.

Do you remember which Nauticat model had your dock neighbor? It was a motorsailor or a S&S design?

Thank you and good winds!
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Old 08-06-2020, 14:54   #11
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Re: Liveaboard blue water boat: Nauticat 44 or Amel Super Maramu?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mag3 View Post
what is it you want to do with the boat? the Nauticat and an Amel SM are very different boats... neither is too big to be managed by a couple, but the specific details surrounding their layout/design may make one or the other slightly easier to do so.

Based on your description of a Bluewater boat to liveaboard and cross oceans you'd be hard pressed to find something more battle tested in that arena than the Amel, and there is a very large owners community out there to seek wisdom from.
  • The build quality of a Nauticat is definitely not the same level as the Amel.
  • The Nauticat has teak decks which are kind of a long term nightmare..especially if mechanically fastened.
  • If The Nauticat doesn't have a bow thruster, it would be very difficult to manage in tight quarters given the amount of windage due to her high freeboard.
  • the Nauticat has more of a pilot house approach vs. the Amel to it's layout... either this is something you really like or don't.

Congrats on being at the point to follow a dream! Good luck!

Cheers ,
-Justin
Hi Justin,

We are a couple with a little experience, around 70.000 nm in the Med in the last 25 years, but mostly in short passages with commercial boats (Jeanneu, Beneteau, Bavaria).
We sold our home and we are now ready to buy our home boat and start the dream.

As we hope it will be our boat for the next 20 years, we are looking for a boat with different features, but first of all safety and quality. After these features, for sure we are looking for a comfortable boat, with the right annual managing costs.

We didn't understand well your opinion about build quality, which one you think is higher level?
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Old 08-06-2020, 14:55   #12
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Re: Liveaboard blue water boat: Nauticat 44 or Amel Super Maramu?

Amel

If I got a larger boat, it would be a amel
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Old 08-06-2020, 14:55   #13
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Re: Liveaboard blue water boat: Nauticat 44 or Amel Super Maramu?

[QUOTE=Zante74;3158727]Hi everyone!

We are a couple looking for a liveaboard blue water boat to cross oceans.

We really like the Nauticat 44's layout, but we have some doubts about the safety of the boat into blue waters (ballast/displacement).

We are sure about the Amel's safety, but it looks too much big and expensive to manage for a couple.

Other option could be the Hallberg Rassy 42 F, but it doesn't look comfortable for living aboard.

Hope to hear some advices and opinions about owners of these models that can help us trough this important decision.


Watch (What makes a great blue water sailboat ) on youtube by Sailing millennial falcon Then apply it to your search. There are a lot of great blue water sailing vessel's not as famous as Amel and Hallberg Rassy and therfore do not command the high price.
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Old 08-06-2020, 14:58   #14
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Re: Liveaboard blue water boat: Nauticat 44 or Amel Super Maramu?

Nauticat boats come in two flavors. The versions with a modified fin keel are known as pilothouse sailboats (e.g. N38, N40, N42, N43). These sailboats are strong, heavy, Class A, bluewater boats. Versions with a full keel, such as the N44, are strong, heavy, Class B boats, so they aren't bluewater boats. They are classified Class B primarily because of the two side entry doors (instead of a conventional, more-or-less centered companionway). Also, the full keel makes it increasing difficult to point into the wind as the wind speed climbs (without resorting to use of a sea anchor); this makes heaving-to problematic. For a brief description of yacht classification, see https://itayachtscanada.com/understa...d-in-yachting/ . We love our N43 and would encourage anyone looking at an open ocean sailboat to at least walk through a Nauticat (e.g. N40, N42, or N43) before you purchase anything.


Some friends of ours have an Amel Super Maramu and they love it. We have a friend who circumnavigated in a Hallberg Rassy 46 and he thought his boat was very capable and comfortable.


There are many other bluewater boats, but I don't think you would go wrong choosing between any of these three.
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Old 08-06-2020, 14:58   #15
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Re: Liveaboard blue water boat: Nauticat 44 or Amel Super Maramu?

The Amel is the closest you will get to a turnkey cruiser suitable for what you intend to do.
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