In production 27 ft sailboats.

[lyl]

Originally Posted by Speedy99

Well, this has been a bit of a wild ride of a thread. From new 27-foot to used 22 in only 7 pages!?!?

One thing nobody mentioned was taking a close look at the cockpit of these smaller boats. The J/70 (and First 27) are boats with a very shallow cockpit - you ride "on" the boat, not "in" the boat. The Catalina 275 (and the upcoming J-9 at 28 feet) are the few "new" production boats with a more robust cockpit. As others have mentioned, the rig stats tell the story (or the PHRF rating as a proxy) - the "sport" boats are really not for beginners, and probably will end in frustration. You need years of experience to trim them properly, and if you are not planning to race, they are not a good match anyway. The First may pretend to be a cruiser, but its definitely more of a racer - like the J/70.

I read this thread with some interest, as I'm actually looking at shifting from a J/70 to a Catalina 275 (or similar), because I no longer want/need the racing aspect, and I now live in a place where daysailing (and single-handing) on the open ocean is more common than racing on the bay for me. I also have a 27-foot restriction, mainly because that is the max size I can fit in a slip locally (unless I want to wait a decade for the 30 foot slips or hassle trailering). I don't have to buy new, but I certainly sympathize with the maintenance issue. I have found very limited choices in the "less than 5 years old, 27 foot max, need a head and a (minimal) cabin, comfortable cockpit, easy to single-hand, stable and handles well for coastal daysailing" category.

You must be pretty knowledgable on the issue.
https://www.beneteau.com/us/first-new/first-27-new
https://www.beneteau.com/us/first-se/first-27-se
What would you say about the trimming of the new inboard diesel fixed keel version of 27? Do you think it is more of a daysailer or still a keen racer? When I look at the sails of the new inboard diesel of the 27, I see a more managable fractional sloop that might require less trimming and maintenance. I wonder what my inexperienced eyes are missing.
Thank you.

[Speedy99]

Originally Posted by Full

You must be pretty knowledgable on the issue.
https://www.beneteau.com/us/first-new/first-27-new
https://www.beneteau.com/us/first-se/first-27-se
What would you say about the trimming of the new inboard diesel fixed keel version of 27? Do you think it is more of a daysailer or still a keen racer? When I look at the sails of the new inboard diesel of the 27, I see a more managable fractional sloop that might require less trimming and maintenance. I wonder what my inexperienced eyes are missing.
Thank you.

Since I already have a J/70, I think of the First 27 as quite similar (and probably quite fun)! if you look at the weights, the Catalina 275 is almost twice as heavy. I would expect the Beneteau to be much more sporty/responsive, leaning on the side of racer/sport much more than the Catalina 275. I would think the small Beneteaus are pretty easy to get to 80% efficiency on "rough" trimming, where I find the J-boats too slow and unforgiving if they are not well trimmed. The First 27 is on my shortlist - since it adds an internal head - but my main boat companion is looking for something more "comfortable" (read: heavy, slow, stable, less responsive, etc.) - which is easy to find in larger boats, but hard to get in the 27-foot category. But I can always crew on other people's boats for racing.

[lyl]

Originally Posted by Speedy99

Since I already have a J/70, I think of the First 27 as quite similar (and probably quite fun)! if you look at the weights, the Catalina 275 is almost twice as heavy. I would expect the Beneteau to be much more sporty/responsive, leaning on the side of racer/sport much more than the Catalina 275. I would think the small Beneteaus are pretty easy to get to 80% efficiency on "rough" trimming, where I find the J-boats too slow and unforgiving if they are not well trimmed. The First 27 is on my shortlist - since it adds an internal head - but my main boat companion is looking for something more "comfortable" (read: heavy, slow, stable, less responsive, etc.) - which is easy to find in larger boats, but hard to get in the 27-foot category. But I can always crew on other people's boats for racing.

Good points. But to be honest, I don't understand what Catalina 275 Sport is. Is it a weekender? Or a racer? Or...? I think it's more of a mainstream design, maybe that fact might mean it's also easier to maintain, trim, and etc...

I don't know if you had time to look at the links that I had posted. These days, there are two First 27 designs, and they are dramatically differ from each other. One is First 27 SE (SE stands for Seascape) with outboard gas, retractable keel, and agressive sails, and the other (First 27 / the new design Beneteau released after purchasing Seascape) comes with fixed bulb keel, inboard diesel, and less agressive sails. The reason I am mentioning this difference is because I am not sure which First 27 you've been talking about.

Respectfully.

[Speedy99]

Originally Posted by Full

Good points. But to be honest, I don't understand what Catalina 275 Sport is. Is it a weekender? Or a racer?

The reason I am mentioning this difference is because I am not sure which First 27 you've been talking about.

I don't think the 275 Sport is a "sport" - I think of it as a "mini Catalina" which seem to be known as sturdy weekender boats providing a decent level of comfort. (Of course, you can race any boat in PHRF!)

The First 27 (both/all of them) seem well designed and pretty nimble. The latest First 27 (inboard, modified hull design, etc.) looks like a winner. The current First 27 SE looks like it has a bit more sail area, and slightly lighter than the First 27, so probably a bit more lively to handle and better for racing. I would love to see both (275 and First 27) in person, hard to tell from videos how cramped the cockpit will be, and how the interior spaces compare.

I would suspect the difference between the First 27 and First 27 SE will be small compared to the difference between either First 27 and the Catalina 275.