Hunter Construction Videos

[Surrymark]

Ok People, I lied. I'm not stepping out of it just yet. My post only asked a question about whether flex is common in modern designs, in the context of Hunters. This last post by Illusion more or less addresses the question, though I'll bet a pot of fish stew that the hulls of Morris boats (as cited) do not flex under hand pressure. To say that "things flex" is a bit of a dodge. Supertankers and skyscrapers flex. I'm told that gravity flexed the Earth out of round. This conversation, though, is how one brand of boat is constructed. Maybe a marine architect can step into it. This time I'm really backing off. (The "yard monkey" is a rigger that any mega yacht or tall ship would be happy to have living on board.)

[rebel heart]

There's more to a boat than a single ride. My boat sails better than a lot of stuff in the harbor and it's 35 years old. I just don't see Hunters falling into the category of "solidly" built when you're talking about multiple decades of wear and tear. It's sort of like heads of state: hard to judge until many years later.

Hunters, by and large, are owned by people who want fancy new white boats with shiny gear. It's the same crowd that leases cars. I'm not knocking them, but they're just different markets and what gives you a boat you don't have to work on today might just be the boat you have to throw away fifteen years from now.

[sailorboy1]

Bet no one still has watched the videos, which is the topic.

I doubt anyone would agrue that a older thicker properly laid up boat should last longer. But whether that extra "strength" makes a difference is unknown and most were build that way because no-one really knew how strong fiberglass was. I don't even really feel thickness of the fibergalss is a real meaurement of the strength as depending on what type of cloth got used thickness could maen anything. If I have a hull 3" thick that only has 1 layer of cloth is that stronger than a 1/2" thick hull with say 6 layers of woven cloth..............but then this is another topic.

[simonmd]

I did watch the videos and one thing you have to say about Hunter is that they know how to market themselves. Being interested in engineering in general, it was facinating to see the build process and good to see a company being so open with the 'nuts and bolts' of things.

Hunter seem to have got themselves a reputation for being 'cheap', both in price and quality. While the former seems to still be true, I can't see whats wrong with the quality. All the equipment, winches, etc. seems to be top brand quality stuff. Just because they're built on a production line, doesn't mean they are bad quality, quite the reverse in fact.

There is an old saying, 'if it looks right, it is right'. Hunters look fine to me! Yea yea, before anyone says it, i'm certainly not super experienced in these matters but as a potential 1st time buyer (second hand), I believe they can offer a great intro to cruising. No one wants their 1st car to need maintainance all the time, or be a car that only an experienced driver can handle. They want something well equiped, reliable and easy to use.

As someone else said on this, or posibly another Hunter thread, 'i'd rather sail a Hunter than be on land still saving for something else'.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by rebel heart

Hunters, by and large, are owned by people who want fancy new white boats with shiny gear. It's the same crowd that leases cars.

Wow. That's an incredible generalization, one that typifies stereotyping. In the view expressed above, it's not just the boat that's inferior, it's the owner as well. This is classic! The whole process of stereotyping is to delineate between ingroups and outgroups, the ingroups being superior (and normal), the outgroups not only being inferior but being aberrant. I suppose we should be glad that the person posting this dig didn't go so far as to suggest that Hunter owners are ethnically inferior. That would have gone well with the southern-rebel persona.

For the record, I currently own my second Hunter, and I drive a pickup truck that was paid for years ago. Neither of the two Hunters I've owned flex when leaned against in a boat yard, not even if you weigh 500 pounds. (You will be covered in bottom paint, however, should you lean against my current Hunter in a boat yard, so I can't imagine a knowledgeable cruiser giving it the lean test.)

You people really ought to listen to yourselves.

[sabray]

When I was seventeen which was a mighty fine year I bought an MG. Now it's panels would never flex but never once did all 3 windshield wipers work. It was a great car on sunny days and it fit my price point and love for tinkering. It was fine for what I did with it. I really like hunters I like how they brought people into sailing tried to make it affordable and built some good boats along the way. some of these probably should steer well clear of southern oceans. I sincerly hope they never build a multi hull. Cruisers forum will never be able to kick there ram up fast enough.

[sailorboy1]

I have to admit that I'm sorry! The saleperson part of me finally fired off in my mind. Remember now that I've come full circle and at 1 time completely repeated the "get the old classic boat and refit it instead of the newer production boat" line.

I'm been trying to address the general topic (and I've posted a few threads in an attempt to get real answers and been trashed from both sides over the years) with the thinking part of my head. But buying stuff falls into 2 groups; 1 to fill a need, 1- to fill a want. No one needs a sailboat so that leaves that buying a sailboat fills a want. This of course is an emotional decision and it is good that people have some passion for their choice. But means those with the older ''classic" boats are maybe never going to admit maybe they are wrong about the other boats (and I did not say they are wrong about their boat).

I don't have anything against any single boat or brand. Whatever boat you have chosen to spend your money and time on is a good boat and hopefully fills your wants! It would just be nice that it wasn't justified by trashing some other boat to make you feel good about your chioce.

So back to the topic, if you watched the videos please admit at least to yourself that Hunter is building a good boat and stop trashing it or other "production" boats just in general (feel free to trash a specific model if you KNOW of a problem) . Maybe 20-30 years ago they weren't constructed as well and time has shown this (but then maybe someone with a 30 yr old Hunter doesn't/hasn't taken as well of care of it as someone with a more costly boat and that's reason).

[Khagan1227]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

I have to admit that I'm sorry! The saleperson part of me finally fired off in my mind. Remember now that I've come full circle and at 1 time completely repeated the "get the old classic boat and refit it instead of the newer production boat" line.

I'm been trying to address the general topic (and I've posted a few threads in an attempt to get real answers and been trashed from both sides over the years) with the thinking part of my head. But buying stuff falls into 2 groups; 1 to fill a need, 1- to fill a want. No one needs a sailboat so that leaves that buying a sailboat fills a want. This of course is an emotional decision and it is good that people have some passion for their choice. But means those with the older ''classic" boats are maybe never going to admit maybe they are wrong about the other boats (and I did not say they are wrong about their boat).

I don't have anything against any single boat or brand. Whatever boat you have chosen to spend your money and time on is a good boat and hopefully fills your wants! It would just be nice that it wasn't justified by trashing some other boat to make you feel good about your chioce.

So back to the topic, if you watched the videos please admit at least to yourself that Hunter is building a good boat and stop trashing it or other "production" boats just in general (feel free to trash a specific model if you KNOW of a problem) . Maybe 20-30 years ago they weren't constructed as well and time has shown this (but then maybe someone with a 30 yr old Hunter doesn't/hasn't taken as well of care of it as someone with a more costly boat and that's reason).

I viewed their videos and thought they make a pretty good boat. Having repeat customers is a testment to the construction of the brand.

Here is a link to the Hunter Owner's website, the boat models and reviews:

HunterOwners.com

Like anything with reviews, some people will rave over spoiled milk, and others will complain over 24K gold.

I say buy what you like, you are going to have to sail it... and fix it.

[Curmudgeon]

I'm simply astounded that Hunter can build such a wonderful boat for so much less money than everyone else.

[hatteras]

Don Lucus
If you want a Hunter then buy one, why do you care what people think?
Are you planning to sail around the world?

[foggysail]

I purchased a Hunter 30 back in 1979! I kept that boat for over 25 years and would still have it if Wifey had not felt it was time to move into power for greater comfort. I never felt at risk with that boat even in the slop found here in New England.

My only bitch with it was that vintage was provided with a single cylinder diesel operating with horizontal piston motion. That engine was just a pig. I changed it out later with a 2 cylinder Universal diesel which performed excellently over my last 15 years of ownership.

That was a fine boat that only cost $29K BRAND NEW!

Foggy

[beetle]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

So back to the topic, if you watched the videos please admit at least to yourself that Hunter is building a good boat and stop trashing it or other "production" boats just in general (feel free to trash a specific model if you KNOW of a problem) .

I watched the videos, they are well done. Below are some critiques based on what was stated in the videos:

Hull:
What I don't understand is why they place alternating layers of glass mat in the below-the waterline hull. Glass mat does nothing for stiffness, adds an enormous amount of weight to the laminate as all it does is soak up resin like a sponge, and adds bulk. One possibility is that Hunter is using the mat to add bulk cheaply in lieu of a core material.

I have no idea what they are talking about with their 'rudder tube' - the rudder is typically supported with a bearing/bushing at the hull, and another at deck level (at least for a wheel-steered boat), and there's no need for a 'rudder tube'. Perhaps they are trying to avoid installing a gland above the lower bearing.

Interior:
I'm not a fan of hull liners, for two reasons: the bonds of bulkheads to hull are not primary chemical bonds, but rather mechanical (glue) bonds. Normally a primary bond can happen with a week of layup, and after that the polyester or epoxy has cured sufficiently that a chemical bond is no longer possible.

I've cut away enough interior liners to get at the hull so that by now I truly do not like liners. I don't have a liner on Beetle Boat (downside, I get to see all the wiring and hydraulics and bolts, all the time, as they are exposed), but I do carry a small fireman's axe/wrecking bar that will remove the interior in minutes to get at a hull failure; it was recommended to me by a friend that had that problem (poked a hole through the hull) and he removed the entire head in less than 60 seconds, toilet & cabinets included.

Hunter makes an amazing statement that the Plexus glue 'chemically melts' fiberglass & resin into one structure... perhaps this is true, Plexus makes the same claim. I've never heard of 'melting' resin and fiberglass... I'd want to know more.

Deck construction:
Hunter points out that they use plywood blocks for the deck core, but they're using balsa for the hull core - would be lighter to use balsa throughout. And then they point out they use aluminum for hi-load areas (which is odd, normally plywood is used as the core material for hi-load areas, with an aluminum backing plate). Using aluminum as a hull core isn't necessary bad, but it sure is difficult to route-out if you have to. The downside to encapsulating aluminum in glass is if the aluminum corrodes, the alumninum oxide is thicker than the initial aluminum, and will burst/crush the deck laminate.

Mechanical and decking:
they don't mention using 5200 on the keel, though it would be typical to set the keel with 5200.

Hunter seems to have done well, and their boats are better-constructed than they were 15 year ago.

For the record, I own a 1983 IOR two tonner built by Charlie Morgan to a Bruce Nelson design - no liner, solid glass below the wateline, klegecell and divinycel core topsides and deck, all systems are visible and serviceable. And no doors, either - one 45 foot tube, from the mast I can see (with a flashlight) forward to the stem fitting bolts all the way aft to the engine exhaust thru-hull.

- rob/beetle

[daddle]

Originally Posted by beetle

I watched the videos...I have no idea what they are talking about with their 'rudder tube'

Rudder tubes are common on FRP boats. As you guessed they eliminate the need for any type of seal as the upper end of the tube is well above the waterline.

Was that a chop gun they were using? Ugh.

And, wow, that's a ton of furniture they stuff in there!

[beetle]

Originally Posted by daddle

Rudder tubes are common on FRP boats. As you guessed they eliminate the need for any type of seal as the upper end of the tube is well above the waterline.

Was that a chop gun they were using? Ugh.

And, wow, that's a ton of furniture they stuff in there!

So to attach a below-deck autopilot ram to the rudder stock one needs to cut away the rudder tube and install a gland. That's not necessarily an easy job for the average boat-owner; if would be much nicer if the builder would install the lower gland, expose the rudder stock, and the owner can install the autopilot of his/her own choosing.

Chopper guns aren't that bad in comparison to rolling out glass mat and wetting it out - though it's interesting that the fellow wielding said chopper gun didn't appear to be wearing a respirator. The styrene smell must be pretty strong on the factory floor.

As for furniture, in my opinion Hunter puts a lot of interesting details into the interior, such as roll-up blinds, flush drawer pulls, recessed lighting - I don't have any of those things, and it's neat to inspect the boats at the local boat show and see what they're doing now.

- rob/beetle

[four winds]

Bash, "I suppose we should be glad that the person posting this dig didn't go so far as to suggest that Hunter owners are ethnically inferior. That would have gone well with the southern-rebel persona."

Personally, I find this statement much more offensive than the one to which you are addressing, sir.

Me being an Abalama redneck n' all.




My experience with Hunter owners is a very generous Licensed Captain across the dock from me who purchased a new Hunter in 2000. He has gone sailing with me many times now and has put me on the fast track in my transition from Hobie18 sailing to big boats. He's had nothing but good things to say about my old boat as well.

I don't know where I'd be without his help. And all I have done buy is buy him a beer and fix a broken bilge pump wire on his boat. Which seems like a fine sailing vessel to me, though I'm not an expert.