Formosa questions or similar boats

[TheLastPirate]

So I'm trying to narrow down a newer bigger boat for myself and my dog. I have loved the Formosa since childhood but have heard bad things about them. Here's what I love...are there any other manufacturers out there that are similar but don't have the same issues ..what are the issues with a Formosa? I heard they have great hulls and wooden topsides. So here's what I like...the chainplates are on the outside so you can easily walk to the bow...I hate dodging rigging . I love how easy it is to get from the cockpit forward, as it's almost the same level, you don't have to climb over combings etc. I love the pirateship look. Sone other boats I like are Baba 35, Tayana 37, Alaluela 38 , and the Formosa 38....I have the idea to stay under 40 feet...one because I've only got about 50k to spend, secondly I want the cheaper dockage, haulout, maintenance of a under 40....but for the right 2 or 3 cabin pirate ship looking boat I would go bigger.
I'm looking for full keep bluewater.
Maybe I'm being to hard on the Formosa...maybe it is the right boat for me , as I want one just like it that's built better...maybe they aren't built that bad..
Any thoughts?

[zeehag]

issues with formosa are created by those who donot like em for whatever reason. yes slow. duh. but when the production boats are heading into port due to wind, formosas SAIL.
structural and other issues with boat are dependent upon its history.. who abused it in what way. who maintained it and who neglected it --just like any other marque.
these were designed as trade wind sailors. awesome sailing boats.
no they suck in light air. no they donot sail directly into wind.. if you want that--a 747 is best.
i have greatly enjoyed my sailing time in this formosa 41-- with, without and otherwise winds. they survive hurricanes nicely.
many rumors few realities.
there are fb groups and a yahoo group of leaky teaky sailors--- yes we proudly call our sweet boats leaky teakies. formosa owners group, and in my signature is how to contact yahoo group. my fb group is called formosa owners group. bas loovens owns one named leaky teaky yacht club. mine is leaky teaky tavern, fb groups both originated from yahoo group. there is much good information in each and all these groups.

ps...there is nothing wrong with their build. they are strong, solid, and the joinery is awesome and beautiful. however there are many folks with bad attitudes..they get a used boat and bitch because of the abuse the boat received instead of the beauty of the design or wood work. each is different from the rest. not a production issue whatsoever. the complaints are verbalized by folks who love race boats. these aint that.

[TheLastPirate]

Thanks for the reply..great to hear because I do love the boats look. I'll check out the group when I get home. And what you said makes sense

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by TheLastPirate

Thanks for the reply..great to hear because I do love the boats look. I'll check out the group when I get home. And what you said makes sense

thankyou. the more i repair and the more i use my boat the more i love it. it is easily repaired when under way--packing gland is immediately accessible, as opposed to most other marques...i donot need a spidermonkey with skillzzz to repair anything on htis boat. all my shrouds are external, i donot stub toes on any fittings as none are on the wide decks. well designed for long distance cruising.
my friends baba has shrouds in mid deck. ouch. my ericson i sold for this boat also was a toe breaker.
seidelmann i sailed had shrouds 1/3 into deck, not quite externalized-- sucked to break my toe in a stormy situation filling diesel..... i donot have to duck or twist to go forward... i LOVE this boat. i can even cook in a rough seaway.

[tarian]

There called leaky for a reason, as the core was poor quality on some and was understood to use bits of ply for the floor using offcuts,
As I didn't build them this is all hearsay , but many owners got real bad decks that leaked.
Nothing to do with the owners abusing them , just poor quality.
They are built to cruise and not go to wind , but why would you want to
A good looking boat , solid if you get a good one, and well worth the trip, they were on my lookout list as well , but not to be

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by tarian

There called leaky for a reason, as the core was poor quality on some and was understood to use bits of ply for the floor using offcuts,
As I didn't build them this is all hearsay , but many owners got real bad decks that leaked.
Nothing to do with the owners abusing them , just poor quality.
They are built to cruise and not go to wind , but why would you want to
A good looking boat , solid if you get a good one, and well worth the trip, they were on my lookout list as well , but not to be

one must know how to maintain teak decks properly before complaining about leaky teaky decking.
i noticed over many years that yotties have no clue on how to take care of em. they neglect em and they varnish em and do nasty things making the natural nonskid foul and dried out and cracked. hence leakage before their times. THAT is maintenance error. for long time, teak decks were screwed into place. that practice has minimalized. perhaps knowing these boats in particular helps. is what original poster was seeking, as opposed to hearsay and blatant rumor.
the rumored complaints about these well built boats is notorious and disinformative.

[tarian]

Originally Posted by zeehag

one must know how to maintain teak decks properly before complaining about leaky teaky decking.
i noticed over many years that yotties have no clue on how to take care of em. they neglect em and they varnish em and do nasty things making the natural nonskid foul and dried out and cracked. hence leakage before their times. THAT is maintenance error. for long time, teak decks were screwed into place. that practice has minimalized. perhaps knowing these boats in particular helps. is what original poster was seeking, as opposed to hearsay and blatant rumor.
the rumored complaints about these well built boats is notorious and disinformative.

Not really . as it came from Formosa owners, no one is critiquing your defense of your boat , but your attack and misinformation on modern boats could be conceived as the same misinformation , hearsay, and blatant rumor
too shay me fellow sailor
https://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-...ed-advice.html
Formosa Yachts - Cruiser Log World Cruising & Sailing Forums

my only nails are from salvor, whose signature was finishing nails.
replacement of bulkheads showed delaminated plywood. after 40 yrs, some ply would delam. hahahahaha
my hull is strong and solid. had divots from sitting on a breakwall for a week. is laid from layers of roving and mat.
mine is one built without teak decking. my decks are 3/4 inch thick with a core looks like door skin sandwiched in.
my delaminated boards look like piles of paper.
my original 49 gallon water tanks are stainless steel. my old fuel tank is gone and was when i took over this boat. i replaced the mess with a stainless steel custom tank.
my original 40 yr old chainplates were cracked and some twistoflex cracked.. 316 was replaced by me with 304, made burlier than the originals.
there was no black steel in my boat when i acquired it.
i have no other things to say about the horrible construction. hell what can i bitch about. boat is 43 years old. it seems to me the allegedly poorly constructed boats have probably attritioned out by now, leaving the stronger examples to survive the years.
mine is 1976 yankee clipper, formosa boat builders yard, taipei, taiwan.
__________________
I do belive this was posted by you
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ts-206654.html



I have a 41 year old Moody , no delamination no issues with chain plates, same tank and water tank
Like I said I was looking at Formosa and decided if its cheap its cheap for a reason

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by tarian

Not really . as it came from Formosa owners, no one is critiquing your defense of your boat , but your attack and misinformation on modern boats could be conceived as the same misinformation , hearsay, and blatant rumor
too shay me fellow sailor
https://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-...ed-advice.html
Formosa Yachts - Cruiser Log World Cruising & Sailing Forums

my only nails are from salvor, whose signature was finishing nails.
replacement of bulkheads showed delaminated plywood. after 40 yrs, some ply would delam. hahahahaha
my hull is strong and solid. had divots from sitting on a breakwall for a week. is laid from layers of roving and mat.
mine is one built without teak decking. my decks are 3/4 inch thick with a core looks like door skin sandwiched in.
my delaminated boards look like piles of paper.
my original 49 gallon water tanks are stainless steel. my old fuel tank is gone and was when i took over this boat. i replaced the mess with a stainless steel custom tank.
my original 40 yr old chainplates were cracked and some twistoflex cracked.. 316 was replaced by me with 304, made burlier than the originals.
there was no black steel in my boat when i acquired it.
i have no other things to say about the horrible construction. hell what can i bitch about. boat is 43 years old. it seems to me the allegedly poorly constructed boats have probably attritioned out by now, leaving the stronger examples to survive the years.
mine is 1976 yankee clipper, formosa boat builders yard, taipei, taiwan.
__________________
I do belive this was posted by you
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ts-206654.html



I have a 41 year old Moody , no delamination no issues with chain plates, same tank and water tank
Like I said I was looking at Formosa and decided if its cheap its cheap for a reason

first off i did not attack modern boats. i have even gone so far as to have OWNED some modern boats. it is the owners of boats who donot know how to maintain em, not the boats fault.
what i reported about MY OWN BOAT is different from others findings inside THEIR OWN BOATS. what leaky teaky yacht club is is a COMPARISON of each of our boats and what we find / found / want / need to fix them.
each and all formosas/ct/sea wolf are made individually and are jewels of the sea.
i have not now nor have i ever dissed another persons boat. hell i been sailing since 1955, so i know many boats. i learned in engineless gaff rigged wood deep keeled one design racer designed by clinton crane. is historic treasure/place, and recently restored to close to original as possible without the owner who died in 1998 at age 95, having sailed it until age 93 or 94.
\moody are good boats. so are mason, and some others.
had you read all the associated emails along with mine, you will learn these are debunking emails. the rumors are many and wide sprawled spewings of second hand third hand drivel which is not relevant to an antique boat, which what these jewels pretty much are.
oh yes and chopper gun. some one keeps saying formosa.....choppergun..lies lies lies. chopper gun came to taiwan in 1980s thanks to hardin and assoc. there is no formosa ever having been built using choppergun.
there is a book in the works regarding these--formosa ct seawolf, garden hardin and some other taiwanese boats and the history of the fg production methods used in taiwan in 1960s-1970s. as we, the author and i , among others debunk the rumors of bad workmanship with these boats, we learned a lot of good information which is relevant to todays production boat construction. we also show what is real and what is relevant with these awesome seakindly trade winds sailing ketches.
~~~~
ps they are cheap due to previous owner failures. that is all. the boats will out live you n me and all the others who dare sail the seas.
and you truly need to examine the sarcasm font used in my writing of the writing you found in formosa owner group, and perhaps re read the message with that in mind..

[SV Sailfish]

Our Downeaster 38 is a similar style to the Formosa. Clipper bow, heavy, etc. Except the Downeaster's were built in California to some pretty high specs. We have had ours in some pretty "oh crap" weather well offshore on a number of occasions and she handled it all in stride. (much better than some of the crew).

Yep, slow to windward but numerous times we have been buddy boating with much lighter, newer production boats that run for cover long before we even think about it. 20+ knots of wind and our girl takes the bit in her teeth and runs like a freight train on rails.

On beautiful, 10 knots of wind sailing days, the newer, lighter boats beat us to destination easily. But, in the oh crap or heavy wind conditions and short chop like here in the Sea of Cortez, we win hands down.

We love our old girl! Good luck with your search.

Cheers!

[AndyEss]

Originally Posted by SV Sailfish

Our Downeaster 38 is a similar style to the Formosa. Clipper bow, heavy, etc. Except the Downeaster's were built in California to some pretty high specs. We have had ours in some pretty "oh crap" weather well offshore on a number of occasions and she handled it all in stride. (much better than some of the crew).

Yep, slow to windward but numerous times we have been buddy boating with much lighter, newer production boats that run for cover long before we even think about it. 20+ knots of wind and our girl takes the bit in her teeth and runs like a freight train on rails.

On beautiful, 10 knots of wind sailing days, the newer, lighter boats beat us to destination easily. But, in the oh crap or heavy wind conditions and short chop like here in the Sea of Cortez, we win hands down.

We love our old girl! Good luck with your search.

Cheers!

Ditto on a heavy boat dealing with the short chop when a norther blows in the SOC.
In November 2017 when I didn't know better, I single handed northbound out of Muertes in my HC38. Looking up into the short period, steep seas with sharks looking down at me was a bit disconcerting.
My friends in a far newer and lighter production boat had to turn around back to the anchorage and even had an injury because of the choppy seas that I motored through. I will admit that the injury might have been at least partially the fault of demon rum, but I wasn't present.
The sailing once I could turn west, and then south to La Paz was delightful. My friends showed up 10 days later.
A heavy, sea kindly boat has advantages in situations where you need them. I have no intention or desire to race. I do fly my asym spinnakers as often as I can because "I like the way she schoons" (inside joke) so I am not an especially conservative sailor.

[tarian]

Originally Posted by zeehag

first off i did not attack modern boats. i have even gone so far as to have OWNED some modern boats. it is the owners of boats who donot know how to maintain em, not the boats fault.
what i reported about MY OWN BOAT is different from others findings inside THEIR OWN BOATS. what leaky teaky yacht club is is a COMPARISON of each of our boats and what we find / found / want / need to fix them.
each and all formosas/ct/sea wolf are made individually and are jewels of the sea.
i have not now nor have i ever dissed another persons boat. hell i been sailing since 1955, so i know many boats. i learned in engineless gaff rigged wood deep keeled one design racer designed by clinton crane. is historic treasure/place, and recently restored to close to original as possible without the owner who died in 1998 at age 95, having sailed it until age 93 or 94.
\moody are good boats. so are mason, and some others.
had you read all the associated emails along with mine, you will learn these are debunking emails. the rumors are many and wide sprawled spewings of second hand third hand drivel which is not relevant to an antique boat, which what these jewels pretty much are.
oh yes and chopper gun. some one keeps saying formosa.....choppergun..lies lies lies. chopper gun came to taiwan in 1980s thanks to hardin and assoc. there is no formosa ever having been built using choppergun.
there is a book in the works regarding these--formosa ct seawolf, garden hardin and some other taiwanese boats and the history of the fg production methods used in taiwan in 1960s-1970s. as we, the author and i , among others debunk the rumors of bad workmanship with these boats, we learned a lot of good information which is relevant to todays production boat construction. we also show what is real and what is relevant with these awesome seakindly trade winds sailing ketches.
~~~~
ps they are cheap due to previous owner failures. that is all. the boats will out live you n me and all the others who dare sail the seas.
and you truly need to examine the sarcasm font used in my writing of the writing you found in formosa owner group, and perhaps re read the message with that in mind..

No problems
To OP if it is cheap its cheap for a reason, I suggest like buying any boat get a good surveyor , especially one that can detect rotten cores ,(should be standard)
There will be good Formosa out there that have extensive repairs and fixes and if made good these are great blue water boats , but as everything if life
Caveat emptor
But I never found one that was in a price range that was not awaiting more money thrown at it

[ccannan]

Originally Posted by TheLastPirate

So I'm trying to narrow down a newer bigger boat for myself and my dog. I have loved the Formosa since childhood but have heard bad things about them. Here's what I love...are there any other manufacturers out there that are similar but don't have the same issues ..what are the issues with a Formosa? I heard they have great hulls and wooden topsides. So here's what I like...the chainplates are on the outside so you can easily walk to the bow...I hate dodging rigging . I love how easy it is to get from the cockpit forward, as it's almost the same level, you don't have to climb over combings etc. I love the pirateship look. Sone other boats I like are Baba 35, Tayana 37, Alaluela 38 , and the Formosa 38....I have the idea to stay under 40 feet...one because I've only got about 50k to spend, secondly I want the cheaper dockage, haulout, maintenance of a under 40....but for the right 2 or 3 cabin pirate ship looking boat I would go bigger.
I'm looking for full keep bluewater.
Maybe I'm being to hard on the Formosa...maybe it is the right boat for me , as I want one just like it that's built better...maybe they aren't built that bad..
Any thoughts?

PM sent

[TheLastPirate]

All good stuff guys thanks!!

[zeehag]

PS please note--i never said with a formosa you will not be repairing your formosa formosa your life...but that is exactly same with any and all boats.
when you find a boat you like you are able to sukitup and fix that which is wrong according to you.
ALL boats need repairing especially new ones right off the assembly line.
the biggest blessing with formosas is there was never any assembly line.

[Cheechako]

Many early Formosa & Cheoy Lee had very poor plywood as a base for the cabin, deck, cockpit, bulkheads etc. Many have rotted badly. I think this improved later on. The hulls were thick and stout. The Ta Chao or CT boats seemed to be better with molded decks and cabins, although some very early ones were pretty poor also. Tayana too.
Ta Shing built boats are very superior to all of those. (Baba and others)

It generally seems to be a particular yard and time period that matters. But, anything in the 70's, especially 60's to late mid 70's is pretty poor from what I've seen.