First sailboat - keel damage??

[pjbori]

Hi Cruisers,

I'm looking to buy my first sailboat in Denmark. I found a 31 fter from 1977, which is seems perfect for my needs in most aspects. However, the keel has some worrying rust line where the fiberglass and the iron keel meet. You can see the photos through the link below. The owner suggests it's a natural issue and it's a relatively inexpensive job he does every five years or so by himself. Is this a deal breaker or is it a manageable issue?

What do you think?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1h_...v0BwGu9WtKzKQF

Thanks!

[slug]

Originally Posted by pjbori

Hi Cruisers,

I'm looking to buy my first sailboat in Denmark. I found a 31 fter from 1977, which is seems perfect for my needs in most aspects. However, the keel has some worrying rust line where the fiberglass and the iron keel meet. You can see the photos through the link below. The owner suggests it's a natural issue and it's a relatively inexpensive job he does every five years or so by himself. Is this a deal breaker or is it a manageable issue?

What do you think?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1h_...v0BwGu9WtKzKQF

Thanks!

Hire a surveyor to inspect and recommend repair

Surface rust on the side of the keel is simple weekend maintenance repair

Corrosion on the top of the keel .. between the hull and keel ,in the joint , is a big job

Possible deal breaker

The surveyor will know

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by slug

Hire a surveyor to inspect and recommend repair

Surface rust on the side of the keel is simple weekend maintenance repair

Corrosion on the top of the keel .. between the hull and keel ,in the joint , is a big job

Possible deal breaker

The surveyor will know

Can't disagree w/the above comment that corrosion on the top of the keel would be a deal breaker and the cracks seen in the photos are indicative of movement in the joint.

Unless its a super deal (almost free), would move on since there are so many used boats in the market now.

Previously had a boat w/an iron keel and if I had my preference would go for an encapsulated lead keel to avoid the continuous nuisance maintenance of surface rust on an iron keel and keel bolt issues.


Bill O.

[psk125]

Many boats in Europe are made with cast iron keels, so this is fairly typical. As others suggest, this may or may not be a big deal. If it is the “right” boat for you, get your offer accepted, subject to a survey, and see what your surveyor says. We had similar issues with our Soling for more than 15 years.

[billknny]

Originally Posted by Bill O

Previously had a boat w/an iron keel and if I had my preference would go for an encapsulated lead keel to avoid the continuous nuisance maintenance of surface rust on an iron keel and keel bolt issues.
Bill O.

If you have a problem with "continuous surface rust" on a cast iron keel then you are not properly taking care of it. A good epoxy sealcoat should last at least 7 years with NO rust at all. Zero.

From the outside, a properly maintained iron keel will look no different than a lead one. I have had mine for 5 years, with not a trace of rust, and no special care other than routine bottom painting. And it's 25 years old.

[a64pilot]

Unless your an expert any boat that old really ought to be surveyed if your serious about buying, not to say it may not be a great old boat, but it may have issue that you need to know about.

[Bill O]

[QUOTE=billknny;3069500]If you have a problem with "continuous surface rust" on a cast iron keel then you are not properly taking care of it. A good epoxy sealcoat should last at least 7 years with NO rust at all. Zero. /QUOTE]

Well maybe 30+ years ago when working on the iron keel the sealers may not have been as good as today, but would say relative to other encapsulated lead keels, they were much more work to keep fair. They would not be my first choice for keel material.

Bill O.

[Marathon1150]

We have an iron keel and they are a bit of trouble but not a lot more than the rest of any boat. If the keel has been epoxied properly there will not be any surface rust (or shouldn't be). Our boat goes 3 years between bottom paint jobs and there is occasionally a spot or two of rust at the hull-deck joint but that is pretty much it.

The iron keel bolts are a different matter. We did have a major problem because of salt water sitting in the bilge for about a month because of a leaking dripless shaft seal (we were away from the boat and our boat checker didn't inspect the bilge). We have an HF/SSB copper foil groundplane and this combination of several metals and salt water led to extreme corrosion of the bolt heads. Four bolt heads had turned into an easily crumbled hard powder. Drilling them out revealed that the bolts were fine, only the heads exposed to the electrolytic environment of the bilge had been destroyed.

A good (ask around) surveyor is essential.

[slug]

Originally Posted by billknny

If you have a problem with "continuous surface rust" on a cast iron keel then you are not properly taking care of it. A good epoxy sealcoat should last at least 7 years with NO rust at all. Zero.

From the outside, a properly maintained iron keel will look no different than a lead one. I have had mine for 5 years, with not a trace of rust, and no special care other than routine bottom painting. And it's 25 years old.

Epoxy primer over a sandblasted surface is long lasting

The problem with paint , epoxy films , is that they don’t like to go around sharp 90 degree edges. The paint film will be thin on this sharp edge. The top of the keel has this sharp edge issue .
Waterproof protection and durability is always based on paint film thickness.

additionally, as the substrate expands and contracts the paint film on this sharp edge cracks...rust

Always heavily radius sharp edges before painting , epoxy coating

Your surveyor should be able to provide insight

When I doubt contact the technical advisor at International Paints or the Paint company in your region

[Michael Cobbe]

I've said this before, the only way to get rust off and stop it coming back is to sand blast it and then paint with Zinc rich epoxy.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Michael Cobbe

I've said this before, the only way to get rust off and stop it coming back is to sand blast it and then paint with Zinc rich epoxy.

It will be too late on a well used cast iron keel as the cast iron will have absorbed salt water. Also sand blasting isn't the done thing anymore due to risks involved with silicatosis.

However, all is not lost, although I can't access the images unfortunately. Our cast iron keels (we have two) are going to be around long after I have departed this life. Maintenance of the keel involves cleaning any spots, rust preventer and then preventive paint like Internationals Primocon, followed by antifoul paint. that's the DIY options, bringing in a firm to slurry or soda blast would be good, but the keep needs washing afterwards to remove salts.

The keel joints are a bit of a pain, but a scrape out clean and fill with CT1 or Sikaflex and smoothed off before painting lasts 3 or 4 years. Again DIY job taking an hour.

Pete

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, pjbori.

[hamburking]

In my personal opinion, based solely on the pics you provided, I'd say it looks entirely cosmetic. Clean it up as suggested.

However, you might tell the seller its structural, and ask for a 50% reduction in price.

[1boat2many]

At first glance, as others have said, and having owned a boat with a cast iron keel, looks cosmetic. BUT. This is your first boat, so err on the side of caution, at the very least, let the owner know you feel it's appropriate at this stage of the vessel's life to have the keel dropped, bolts inspected, replaced if needed and drawn back up into place with new bedding compound - good for quite a few years barring some glavanic corrosion disaster as described by the mix of various metals sitting in salt water for in the keel sump. That could be a deal breaker if he's unwilling to meet you half way. Better to take away what you saw and liked about this boat and apply that to teh next candidate. They are out there, don't let your heart get ahead of you.

[Sailing August]

Might be cosmetic and then it might not. Just dressing up the outside of the hull to clean off the rust is not enough. Once corrosion starts....it will not stop until it has been completely passivized. If sea water has intruded through the joint where the iron keel meets the fiberglass, then the will be corrosion on top of the keel and on the keel bolts. May be a big deal and it may be nothing. You will not know until you loosen the keel bolts and drop the iron keel down for a look.
If it was me......I'd pass on this boat. Its not worth the trouble or the worry. There are a lot of boats for sale out there. Keep looking. You will find a good one.