Entering a sailboat over a sugar scoop transom in heavy seas

[Markus Trezise]

Thank you Don for your explanation and great story!

[davefromoregon]

Originally Posted by deblen

I suggest each of you try jumping in the water,fully clothed,on a safe calm day,with a safety line.
Then,try climbing back aboard your boat.
Cheers/Len


https://www.fisheriessupply.com/just...g-ladder/rl100

Last summer, we had to perform a real live rescue in very cold water( 50 degrees ), it was calm so bringing people up on the sugar scoop was feasible. The guy weighed 350lbs or more so I have no idea how we’d have gotten him onto a pitching boat either on the side or the stern( ok, I’d have used the spinnaker halyard with a harness, but it would have been damned difficult).

[grantmc]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

My sugar scoop stern has a fold-down ladder extending several feet into the water.

What we do, even in rough weather, is bring the dinghy up to the stern and tie off both ends. It's an easy step to the ladder and then onto the sailboat while grabbing the stern rail.

It is much less strenuous compared to climbing a ladder up the hull or on a regular stern. It's one of the reasons we bought this boat.

I guess I'm not understanding why some people find this so difficult.

In agreement with Shanachie, and sounds very similar scenario to my own, see pics.
I do though wish for steps that will fold down from the scoop in to the water to make it easier to climb up when swimming. My scoop is actually flat and in reality probably better described as a diving/fishing platform. There are a couple of steps to climb on over the transom. She's technically a centre cockpit with a small stern cabin.

Standing in the dinghy it's easy to support oneself from the mother ship. And even large objects can pass under the life lines. As you can see from the pick the dink is tied up alongside. And I have two lines (fore and aft of dinghy) of appropriately length with snap shackles to make it easy to come alongside and tie on. In rough weather coming alongside is the most difficult issue as sometimes the wind holds the two boats apart. Or perhaps I catch sight of a lovely thing in a teeny bikini and my mind wanders.

[rslifkin]

The exact best method will vary between boats. Different hull shapes move differently, have different pinch points, etc. So there's not a solid rule for the best way to get in/out of a dinghy.

When picking a friend up from his boat last summer, we found the easiest thing for him to do was to use his transom ladder to get from the boat to the dinghy. Too much freeboard for a safe transfer without a side ladder (which he didn't have), and his boat (an 80s Pearson) has a vertical transom, no sugar scoop, swim platform, or anything, just a ladder. The transfer between the dinghy and ladder approximately resembled a less crazy version of the ship's pilot ladder transfer. Requires a little agility, but can be done quite safely if you're decisive about when to make the step.

[Kd9truck]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

The key to boarding any boat in any position is good handholds to pull yourself up.


I carry an inflatable dinghy on weaver davits on my sugar scoop stern. We find it easiest to always board the boat from the dinghy. It only takes a minute to lower it.


From the dinghy, even in choppy conditions, it's easy to reach up and grab part of the stern rail, then lift yourself up onto the sugar scoop. This is no problem for me at age 70.

I second this approach for the Ambulatory (ones that can help themselves ). Also my alternative if it’s just 2 person crew and one is in the drink. For the non-ambulatory (can not aide themselves in their own rescue) we have a sea drogue that is set up to use with the booms topping lift so if needed our right angle drill into the main wench can get the victim up and on deck by one person in no time at all.
The crux is getting a “non- responsive” body on board by one person, this is the stuff they make horror movies about. I was a rescue swimmer so I am going to try and rope haul the body to the rib and haul it in, I would harness up and be tethered to the boat. Tie the victim to the rib to haul the rib up to above the transom deck then haul the victim on board and assess viability for CPR.

A fine point about a MOB scenario, if the victim has ingested salt water in their lungs they will most likely be hospitalized with in a short while as they will most likely 4have bacterial pneumonia. IF you have this scenario offshore and it seems the victim is “alright” it is still imperative that the victim be seen by advanced healthcare.

Cheers

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

After climbing up the reverse transom from the dinghy for 15 years, I would never try to climb over the lifelines on the side of the boat in rough weather. I would stand in the front of the dinghy and hold the stern pulpit while the admiral stepped on the swim ladder and climbed the transom. Once she and the other passengers were off, I stepped up on the bow of the dinghy and from there to the top of the transom. It did take some timing, but was easy to learn. Needless to say, there was no windvane on the transom.

This worked well in some really sporty conditions. I recall a boat anchored off the landing at Pitcairn where they got into real trouble trying to board on the side, and one of the crew was injured.

This is where the bit about boat design comes in.

Our Center Cockpit has a mid ship gate. We hang a one step ladder here, permanent attachment, we just flip it up over the toe rail when not in use.

Also we use a 12’ Porta-Bote as a dink. When I pull up to the boat one of us hooks a painter on the life line and grabs a stanchion. My Wife has a bad knee and is very far from agile. She keeps one foot on the sole, one on a seat and then steps up on to the deck using the step. This way she can time the step while still holding the stanchion. And you have a firm footing.

We find sugar scoops difficult for a variety of reasons. If I had one I may be able to make it easier but not sure how. The relative motion is greatly more, there is often some obstruction (back stay or stuff), the anti-skid is sketchy, and it is inevitable that a side exit is not possible so it is over the bow.

This brings up the design of the dink. We do not like RIB’s because of the need to step on the floatation. It is of variable stiffness and it requires a bit of a reach, which tends to push the dink away. The PB makes for a straight vertical and more solid step.

I see folks who come to our boat struggle with the side step because of that reach over the inflation tube.

When coming to a dock I try to come alongside but my Wife can get out and in over the bows. With her knee she finds ribs very difficult to navigate, the footing is less solid. If she has to cross a RIB to get on a dock, well that is a big problem.

There have been rare occasions when we did not feel comfortable with our situation, but by then no one (sane) was going out anyway.

Your boat, and dink and circumstances are unusual but this is what works for us and why.

[rslifkin]

I see some mentioning as stepping aboard from the bow of the dinghy. That seems like the hard way to me. We typically tie the dinghy up sideways to the transom for boarding.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

I see some mentioning as stepping aboard from the bow of the dinghy. That seems like the hard way to me. We typically tie the dinghy up sideways to the transom for boarding.

I was think more of at a crowded dingy dock.

It seems every sailor in the East Caribbean needs to bring their dink tight to the dock and lock it. Sometimes sideways with bow and stern lines. If they do not lock it to the boarding ladder.

[JPA Cate]

Ah, yes, dinghy dock etiquette! It really demands its own thread.

*Basically chaining your dinghy to the dock is okay, but you gotta ALWAYS leave enough slack for others to come in and tie up.

*AND, ALWAYS, chain or tie up under the other guy's painter.

*If a ladder is involved, ALWAYS tie up your dinghy so other dinghies folks can access the ladder.

*NEVER untie someone else's dinghy without their permission. If you have to, then make sure you tie it back where they left it, with the same kind of knot, bowline, cleat hitch, whatever.

The simplest way of thinking about it is to put everyone's well being on the same level, and to not limit their access to their boats, and leave space for those who may come after you. At night, don't shine your spotlight on other's faces.

Ann

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

After climbing up the reverse transom from the dinghy for 15 years, I would never try to climb over the lifelines on the side of the boat in rough weather. I would stand in the front of the dinghy and hold the stern pulpit while the admiral stepped on the swim ladder and climbed the transom. Once she and the other passengers were off, I stepped up on the bow of the dinghy and from there to the top of the transom. It did take some timing, but was easy to learn. Needless to say, there was no windvane on the transom.

This worked well in some really sporty conditions. I recall a boat anchored off the landing at Pitcairn where they got into real trouble trying to board on the side, and one of the crew was injured.

Indeed, IF the boat is rolling.

You should always board from the part of the boat where the motion is the easiest.

At anchor my boat usually does not roll unless there is a current or some other reason why wave action doesn't correspond to the wind direction. On the other hand, my boat can pitch fairly violently if I'm anchored in poor shelter. I can't reach my stern pulpit at all from the dinghy because of high freeboard at the stern. And even approaching the transom in the dinghy can be dangerous lest the dinghy come under the folded out transom platform.

So in my case, boarding from the side is sometimes a good option, depending on conditions and boat motion. YMMV.

[sailcrazy]

We sail a Taswell 43 monohull, with a sugarscoop. Several years ago we had the aft safety lines removed and replaced with 1" s/s tubing (a really great improvement). and when the welder was installing, we had him create and attach hinged boarding ladders to each side entry gate. They fold down, rest against the hull, and provide an easy entry from the dink. They are hinged to the side gate stanchion base, and are held in place by a pin on each side of the gate. We also left the cable gate closers in place, as added security We've used them now for some 13 years, they work great, and look like they belong.not an add-on. Entry is EZ, even with a rolling or pitching sea.

[Fbfisher]

Having experienced 6 feet of vertical travel in a swell entering the cove, I am sympathetic to the problem. I think one solution is to also hang a boarding ladder from the midship.

[donradcliffe]

While I haven't been called on yet, there is always the possibility of needing to launch and retrieve a dinghy in rough mid-ocean conditions to rescue people from a dismasted mono or inverted cat or a medical emergency.

As we have learned so far in this thread, the mono folks are divided between side boarding and stern boarding from the dinghy. Most cats are set up with stern steps and dinghy davits. If you are a cat sailor, what did you do, or what would you try? In any case, it will take a fair bit of seamanship.

[Icarus]

Probably better to board a pitching vessel from the side..
Good timing and hang on.
Stands to reason?

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by Icarus

Probably better to board a pitching vessel from the side..
Good timing and hang on.
Stands to reason?

Does to me.