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Old 12-01-2024, 10:47   #1
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Down to 4 Boats...Please Help Me Decide...

First time poster. I've narrowed my list to purchase a bluewater ketch gunkholer. Please help me weigh the pros and cons of each...


CSY 44 Ketch
Endeavour 40 Ketch
Morgan Out Island 41 Ketch
Endeavour 37 Ketch



My eyes and brain are tired of weighing the pros and cons of each of these myself. I'll likely be single-handing and will be updating the boat for ocean-crossing (new sails, beefier standing rigging, etc.).


Your combined wisdom is appreciated. Here's a list of already excluded contenders...

Victory 40 Ketch
Durbeck 46 Ketch
Pearson 365 Ketch
Northstar 80/20 Ketch
Hughes 40 Ketch
Cabo Rico Tiburon 36 Ketch
Morgan Out Island 36 Ketch
Dickerson 41 Ketch
Gulfstar 41 Ketch



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Old 12-01-2024, 10:53   #2
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Re: Down to 4 Boats...Please Help Me Decide...

beefier standing rigging is not the best idea ... makes the boat a little more top heavy. Whatever size you have now is the proper size engineered for the boat.
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Old 12-01-2024, 11:21   #3
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Re: Down to 4 Boats...Please Help Me Decide...

If you don't already have it, make a list of the things that are important to you and some type of prioritization. Then look at the condition and availability of the boats within your budget. Visit them to see what they're like onboard.

You must have done some of this to get to this point.

(BTW, your popcorn emoji makes me suspicious that this is just trolling)
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Old 12-01-2024, 11:22   #4
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Re: Down to 4 Boats...Please Help Me Decide...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartanacus View Post
beefier standing rigging is not the best idea ... makes the boat a little more top heavy. Whatever size you have now is the proper size engineered for the boat.
Does a boat with a 4-5 ton keel really act much differently if a few extra pounds of weight are added up high? Really?
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Old 12-01-2024, 12:06   #5
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Re: Down to 4 Boats...Please Help Me Decide...

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Welcome to CF

If you are going to be "gunkholing, why do you need a yacht for blue water?


Pete
I'll be doing both and I can't afford two boats.
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Old 12-01-2024, 12:11   #6
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Re: Down to 4 Boats...Please Help Me Decide...

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Originally Posted by leecea View Post
If you don't already have it, make a list of the things that are important to you and some type of prioritization. Then look at the condition and availability of the boats within your budget. Visit them to see what they're like onboard.

You must have done some of this to get to this point.

(BTW, your popcorn emoji makes me suspicious that this is just trolling)
Not trolling for sure. I don't waste my time and I respect the time of others.

I've done the list and now I need some real world insight. I have limited sailing experience and need the insight of those with ocean crossing experience as well as particular experience with these boats.
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Old 12-01-2024, 12:12   #7
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Re: Down to 4 Boats...Please Help Me Decide...

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Does a boat with a 4-5 ton keel really act much differently if a few extra pounds of weight are added up high? Really?
This is what I was thinking. Also, these boats were primarily designed as cruisers. I've seen this recommended elsewhere on this forum.
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Old 12-01-2024, 12:14   #8
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Re: Down to 4 Boats...Please Help Me Decide...

I don't know these boats, but if someone was going to give me one and I got to choose, I'd take the Endeavor 40. By the numbers it looks like it will perform the best and I think 40 is probably about my limit for single-handing. Oh, and does it have to be a ketch?
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Old 12-01-2024, 12:18   #9
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Re: Down to 4 Boats...Please Help Me Decide...

If they all have good heritage, the one best appointed, condition, with most spares with the least to spend on. Easy.
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Old 12-01-2024, 12:38   #10
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Re: Down to 4 Boats...Please Help Me Decide...

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Originally Posted by massnspace View Post
Does a boat with a 4-5 ton keel really act much differently if a few extra pounds of weight are added up high? Really?
OK I'll concede you that, maybe it's not alot of extra weight for a boat like this. It sure adds unnecessary expense tho, kind of like putting super-premium gas in a Prius.
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Old 12-01-2024, 12:43   #11
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Re: Down to 4 Boats...Please Help Me Decide...

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Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
I don't know these boats, but if someone was going to give me one and I got to choose, I'd take the Endeavor 40. By the numbers it looks like it will perform the best and I think 40 is probably about my limit for single-handing. Oh, and does it have to be a ketch?
I'm going with the ketch for stability while single-handing, smaller/more manageable sails, and as a backup rudder.
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Old 12-01-2024, 13:04   #12
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Re: Down to 4 Boats...Please Help Me Decide...

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Originally Posted by Wild_At_Heart View Post
CSY 44 Ketch

Endeavour 37 Ketch

These two boats are a world of difference apart.

CSY 44 Ketch
LOA: 44.00 ft / 13.41 m
LWL: 36.33 ft / 11.07 m
Beam: 13.33 ft / 4.06 m
Displacement: 38,000.00 lb / 17,237 kg
Ballast: 13,000.00 lb / 5,897 kg

Endeavour 37 Ketch


LOA: 37.00 ft (11.28 m)
LWL: 30.00 ft (9.14 m)
Beam: 11.58 ft (3.53 m)
Displacement 20,000 lb (9,072 kg)
Ballast 8,000 lb (3,629 kg)
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Old 12-01-2024, 13:49   #13
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Re: Down to 4 Boats...Please Help Me Decide...

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Originally Posted by massnspace View Post
Does a boat with a 4-5 ton keel really act much differently if a few extra pounds of weight are added up high? Really?
Yes. It might surprise you how much it weighs, especially on a ketch when there is that much more of it. And up high on the top of a lever.

But there is also another probably more important reason. Bigger rigging needs higher pretension. That puts more load on your chainplates, bulkheads, and hull. The whole boat was engineering to withstand the loads of the rigging it was designed for.

That isn't to say that on any given boat there isn't enough headroom to upgrade the rigging, but you would need an engineer or naval architect to examine your plans.

And besides, rigging doesn't fail because it is overloaded. It fails because of corrosion, lack of maintenance, age, improper installation, etc. Going bigger doesn't help with any of that.

As for deciding on the best boat for you. It all comes down to condition and what it will cost to do what you want to do. Look at each boat, and take a notebook to note what will need replaced. Come up with a plan of action for each boat you are considering.

Once you are in a reliable trouble free boat enjoying life, you won't care unless it needed so many repairs you never get out there, or go broke trying.
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Old 12-01-2024, 13:52   #14
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Re: Down to 4 Boats...Please Help Me Decide...

Endeavour 40 Ketch
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Old 12-01-2024, 14:11   #15
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Re: Down to 4 Boats...Please Help Me Decide...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild_At_Heart View Post
First time poster. I've narrowed my list to purchase a bluewater ketch gunkholer. Please help me weigh the pros and cons of each...


CSY 44 Ketch
Endeavour 40 Ketch
Morgan Out Island 41 Ketch
Endeavour 37 Ketch



My eyes and brain are tired of weighing the pros and cons of each of these myself. I'll likely be single-handing and will be updating the boat for ocean-crossing (new sails, beefier standing rigging, etc.).


Your combined wisdom is appreciated. Here's a list of already excluded contenders...

Victory 40 Ketch
Durbeck 46 Ketch
Pearson 365 Ketch
Northstar 80/20 Ketch
Hughes 40 Ketch
Cabo Rico Tiburon 36 Ketch
Morgan Out Island 36 Ketch
Dickerson 41 Ketch
Gulfstar 41 Ketch



For a final choice it may come down to condition, what's included, engine and tank assessment etc. More than anything. Beware of tank issues in old boats and how readily they can be removed!
44 ft is a lot to single hand in roughish weather. I installed larger winches on the 44 in my avatar, in heavy wind with a two hand winch handle, there were times I could not turn it! (120% jib)

-Endeavor 40 might be a good choice. I'd put about equal to the Pearson 365/424 ketch's etc for build quality.
-CSY44 is a bullet proof boat, but VERY heavy and likely getting very old in the teeth.
-OI41 is a rather plain mediocre sailing boat, but can do the job.
-The Endeavor 37 is a bit of an odd duck, I seriously considered one years ago. Seems a bit more pinched up in the stern than I would want.
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