Columbia, Nautica, Newport, Cal T/4 -Merged

[Cheechako]

My impression is the Newport boats are a bit lower level than the other two mentioned. Sounds like those are all bunk anyway though.
I'd definitely pay the $250 per moth to keep the slip and have time to find the right boat.

[Zzmeyer]

Stu is the bomb. Go with a broker. There are no good deals from an *******. Have a pro work it out. This is suppose to be fun


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[knockout_mice]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Sorry to hear about the bad experience with the Col. 26. Where I am cruising I like the characteristics it has. But for where you are and the kind of sailing you are planning, the Cal is a fine choice. ... And yes, you would definitely be able to walk on it. You'll be amazed how strong fiberglass can be. Just because it flexes doesn't mean it is breaking.

Thank you Don. My good friends live on their Columbia in the Ala Wai harbor. I love their boat. They sail it a lot too, take it out to the Friday night races etc. I know they love it too. I'm not sure of the year or footage, but I know it's 30+ years old and under 35 feet.

Wes and I have lots of boating experience, but more as crew than captains, so we have a lot left to learn. I do agree that the Columbia is a great boat--it's just maybe too much boat for us.

Glad to hear that you think the Cal 24 is fixable. We're definitely going to get a survey, which I'm hoping will give us info on how to fix the salon ceiling (is it called a ceiling?).

Thanks again to everyone!!! Y'all are awesome!

[Terra Nova]

Recommend looking for a cream puff, not a fixer-upper.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

Recommend looking for a cream puff, not a fixer-upper.

Yes! Because every cream puff ends up a fixer upper anyway.... just less intensely so!

[knockout_mice]

We have found another contender!

Any thoughts on it?

Price does not include motor but he has offered to add in electric motor and solar panels if we add a few thousand to price. (We would do this and electric seems very nice to me)

It needs bottom paint (what boat doesn't?)
And it doesn't have a head but I know adding a portable one is simple enough.
There's no galley, lighting, no bells and whistles, but it seems loved and it'll sail. Main, jib, and storm sails are all relatively new.
All rigging looks very sturdy.

Any thoughts?

http://honolulu.craigslist.org/mau/boa/5115760518.html

[Terra Nova]

You are feeding at the very bottom of the food chain.

No head? No galley? No motor? (But the seller can fix that for thousands of $ more.) Does this really sound like it's even close to what you are looking for?

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

You are feeding at the very bottom of the food chain.

No head? No galley? No motor? (But the seller can fix that for thousands of $ more.) Does this really sound like it's even close to what you are looking for?

My thoughts too.

I mean, for the price, I would expect the boat to have lights and a motor and a head or portapotty already aboard.

[knockout_mice]

Have you all forgotten about the boats this started with?
Buying a boat in Hawaii is not like buying a boat in Texas. There are FIVE BOATS available in this state right now. $5,000 seems like a good mainland price for a Macgregor and electric motors are significantly more expensive than standard petroleum outboards, not to mention the price of solar panels. I don't think it's a rip off.

If we didn't go with this one, the other contender is a 24-foot Cal, which also has no lighting, no galley, a 10-hp outboard, a portapotty (with someone else's history in it), and a salon ceiling (not deck) that needs repairing. And it is $14,000. We offered that owner $10,000 (way too much) and he countered at $13,000.

The Macgregor looks better, it has a pop-up top that my husband can stand under and is located on a different island and can be delivered. It also has a swing keel so we can sail up to the sandbar. No galley, but we aren't sailing far and I'm not going to live on it. I just want to go off the coast of Hawaii once a month on my own boat for a snorkel, a BBQ, and a few cocktails.

Remember, a gallon of milk here costs $5. A boat slip is $9/foot if it's cheap. Boats cost more too. And we don't have the selection the mainland does, but it's just something I have come to accept.

I don't mind no galley. There are not many choices here.

[knockout_mice]

Here's a link to the Cal T/24.
It also needs bottom paint, has no galley, no electric, no battery, and has a portapotty.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...ua&&ywo=kokua&

Macgregor is missing portapotty but those only cost $200ish. WITH electric engine, battery, delivery from Maui to Oahu, and solar panels, Macgregor is still under $8,000.

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by knockout_mice

...WITH electric engine, battery, delivery from Maui to Oahu, and solar panels, Macgregor is still under $8,000.

Can you not see how you will soon wind up with the only (older) $10,000 Macgregor 25 in the world? And electric power! That is no less than a $3,000+ science experiment.

[duefocena]

Please forgive my feelings on your enthusiasm of a 25' Magregor in Hawaii. Having sailed in Hawaii for decades and having worked for Roger Magregor you are taking a tricycle on the freeway. The swing keel you want to go to a sand bar with is not designed for Hawaiian wind, water, currents, etc. An electric motor with solar panels doesn't work. The power used by the motor will never be equalled by the panels. Ever.....
I feel bad because I can feel how excited you are but this would be an unsafe mistake. Look at the connections of the wires to the hull, ( Also known as chain plates and shrouds). You can visually see they are inferior to any other boat you have listed. Now look at the gauge ( thickness) of the boom and mast and the fittings that join them together ( Also known as the goose neck) Can you see how different they are from any of the other boats? The Magregor is made for a lake, or better a pond, but definitely not heavy enough to safely get you home that day you got caught in 25kt. trade winds. Magregors are famous as the cheapest built boat you can buy. That was Rogers goal and also to provide a sailboat for people who would never have gotten involved in sailing if they had to come up with a larger amount of dough. Just look at how many are there in Hawaii still sailing and let the odds guide you.[/U]

[knockout_mice]

Duefocena,
Thank you for your candid response. I definitely know what shrouds are by the way, we aren't that new to sailing... We are new to boat ownership and the shopping for a boat. We just want something to take out on Sundays off the southern coast. This boat was originally purchased in Oahu and sailed to Maui. Now, the owner is willing to sail it back here to Oahu for us. It's about $4,000 cheaper than the Cal T/24. The area we want to cover with this easy, inexpensive starter boat would be the same area we see little dagger board sunfish sailing every day. We are going to have it at the state harbor, which provides electricity for charging the engine. We'll use the solar panels to power any lights and music while we relax anchored close to Waikiki (not to charge the motor).

Is it still a bad deal?

We need to fill our slip before end of August and we didn't like the heavier boats. They have more blue water potential maybe but that's not what we are looking for. We are pretty familiar with Waikiki sailing and if you don't go further south than Diamond Head, it isn't actually that rough. We usually go in a friend's 35' Ericson but have also been out plenty on the Waikiki Yacht Club Cal 20 loaners. My husband and I figure that if he can get it here from Maui, it can handle what we want to do. In a few years, we'll graduate to inner-island sailing, and for that, we'll get a bigger, more sturdy boat.

All that being said, I think I can get the Macgregor for $7,500 and the Cal T/24 for $12,000. Do you think the Cal is a better choice? The Cal has a deck leak (probably just a lose bolt, but has damaged the interior). I don't think the Macgregor needs any repairs. I don't think there are currently any other options. Unless we order one from California--but then delivery can cost $5k. And seeing it before August would be hard because I'm so pregnant now.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by duefocena

Please forgive my feelings on your enthusiasm of a 25' Magregor in Hawaii. Having sailed in Hawaii for decades and having worked for Roger Magregor you are taking a tricycle on the freeway. The swing keel you want to go to a sand bar with is not designed for Hawaiian wind, water, currents, etc. An electric motor with solar panels doesn't work. The power used by the motor will never be equalled by the panels. Ever.....
I feel bad because I can feel how excited you are but this would be an unsafe mistake. Look at the connections of the wires to the hull, ( Also known as chain plates and shrouds). You can visually see they are inferior to any other boat you have listed. Now look at the gauge ( thickness) of the boom and mast and the fittings that join them together ( Also known as the goose neck) Can you see how different they are from any of the other boats? The Magregor is made for a lake, or better a pond, but definitely not heavy enough to safely get you home that day you got caught in 25kt. trade winds. Magregors are famous as the cheapest built boat you can buy. That was Rogers goal and also to provide a sailboat for people who would never have gotten involved in sailing if they had to come up with a larger amount of dough. Just look at how many are there in Hawaii still sailing and let the odds guide you.[/U]

Good post!

To the OP: Please don't mistake my POV. I am not trying to discourage you from sailing or buying a boat or enjoying the sea.

Also, here are a few points the OP mentioned that I think ARE good to bear in mind:

1. Boats (and everything else like milk) can cost more in Hawaii than in the Mainland USA.

2. There are fewer boats from which to choose in Hawaii that fit the length limits the OP has for the slip that is available.

3. The OP wants to get that slip while it is available.
__________________

So, I see:

1. Lack of local choices.
2. Time Pressure to Buy Something NOW
_______________

Regarding the Mac.
A forum member recently sailed one to the Bahamas and cruised on his Mac and had a great time. He did this solo. His blog and many nice videos show what his cruise was like, but be aware that much of it involved motoring or motor sailing (using the outboard motor). Well worth watching if you are seriously considering purchase of a Mac.

But, his Mac was carefully equipped for cruising, had extensive modifications, and was still challenged by some conditions in the Bahamas (relatively small seas, some winds and intermittent squalls, and some strong currents between islands).

Given what I know about what the Intra-Island conditions are in Hawaii (having sailed from Oahu to Kauai) I would NOT feel comfortable (safe) taking a Mac between islands except on the most benign of sailing days. But, that is because I would be considering the lives of my family/spouse or friends who were with me, in addition to my own.

If the Mac you want to buy was used for sailing around in Pearl Harbor, or in the Alawai harbor, or near shore off Waikiki on easy days, sure, I can see doing that and using that kind of boat. I can see it being kept in Kaneohe Bay and used there too.

But…I would not look to that boat for taking my family offshore (e.g. to Maui, or even offshore off Oahu) where or when the seas may be bigger and winds rise up. And when I write "offshore" I do not mean "blue water cruising" or long distance voyages. I mean simply "out of the harbor" because most of the water around Hawaii IS blue water (and lovely).

Good luck on your purchase decision.
______________

Incidentally, yesterday I read about a sailor/boater (Ron Ingraham) who was lost when his boat wrecked a few months ago. He drowned and was lost. His story caught my eye because back in December 2014 he had gone fishing on his own small sailboat (a 25 footer) and was "lost at sea" for 12 days around Christmas time. It was a big news story at the time. As I recall, he said his boat was "hit by a rogue wave" and his sails would not work, his engine would not work, etc. He had no EPIRB and so drifted off for 12 days, and despite much searching was only found by chance after the search was suspended. He was found 67 miles or so off Oahu. He was lucky the first time. Not lucky the next time (April 2015).
Lost sailor miraculously found alive is now missing again - The Washington Post

[duefocena]

Originally Posted by knockout_mice

Duefocena,
Thank you for your candid response. I definitely know what shrouds are by the way, we aren't that new to sailing... We are new to boat ownership and the shopping for a boat. We just want something to take out on Sundays off the southern coast. This boat was originally purchased in Oahu and sailed to Maui. Now, the owner is willing to sail it back here to Oahu for us. It's about $4,000 cheaper than the Cal T/24. The area we want to cover with this easy, inexpensive starter boat would be the same area we see little dagger board sunfish sailing every day. We are going to have it at the state harbor, which provides electricity for charging the engine. We'll use the solar panels to power any lights and music while we relax anchored close to Waikiki (not to charge the motor).

Is it still a bad deal?



We need to fill our slip before end of August and we didn't like the heavier boats. They have more blue water potential maybe but that's not what we are looking for. We are pretty familiar with Waikiki sailing and if you don't go further south than Diamond Head, it isn't actually that rough. We usually go in a friend's 35' Ericson but have also been out plenty on the Waikiki Yacht Club Cal 20 loaners. My husband and I figure that if he can get it here from Maui, it can handle what we want to do. In a few years, we'll graduate to inner-island sailing, and for that, we'll get a bigger, more sturdy boat.

All that being said, I think I can get the Macgregor for $7,500 and the Cal T/24 for $12,000. Do you think the Cal is a better choice? The Cal has a deck leak (probably just a lose bolt, but has damaged the interior). I don't think the Macgregor needs any repairs. I don't think there are currently any other options. Unless we order one from California--but then delivery can cost $5k. And seeing it before August would be hard because I'm so pregnant now.

I so applaud your desire to have a boat and even with such a major event pending. I would never discourage anyone from boating. It is obvious you have made up your mind on the Macgregor. I am curious though, did you fly to Maui to see it? I'm thinking not and therein lies your comparison of this boat to others. I asked Roger Macgregor one day his thoughts on "beefing up" the rigging and his reply was very telling. He said," would you rather tear a hole in the hull or suffer a snapped mast?". A paper cup will make it downwind from Maui to Oahu and I've met sailors who have beefed up their lake boats to circumnavigate. In my experience in Hawaii,(25 years), you will definitely go out one day when the weather was light and return with the weather howling. Even off of Waikiki, in fact commonly off of Waikiki. I don't know if you're keeping her in the Ala Wai or Keehi lagoon but getting caught in the trades will happen at either place. A 25' Macgregor in CA. where they are built brings $2,000 with an engine and trailer so even with $5k to ship and thirty days wait you would be ahead. While your question is if it's a "good deal", I think the more important question is whether it is prudent to risk the danger of being off of Hawaii in a poorly built boat.