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SuW · 12-01-2022, 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Opie91

ODay 322 32' sailboat REDUCED! - $21,470 (Patchogue)(Long Island, NY)
https://longisland.craigslist.org/bo...428952858.html

This is nice; certainly as a family day sail or weekend cruiser.

About average price. A number for sale about $20K.

The engine looks to be a Yanmar. Probably original, which is OK for 1987. Looks well kept. Hours?

Nice use of the usually empty space below the cockpit for the aft cabin and head compartment.

No picture of galley. Small opening ports to port and starboard amidships, and hatch over the V-berth. Opening port in aft cabin to cockpit.

SuW · 12-01-2022, 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Opie91

1982 - 30' Catalina Tall Boy Sailboat - $13,500 (Fairhaven, MA)
https://southcoast.craigslist.org/bo...428072695.html

This does seem cheap. Average price seems to be about $20K, perhaps they want to get rid of her? (New Year's yard bill?)

Not a lot of information. Diesel engine is good.

Another smallish family cruiser, but a popular marque and fairly reputable.

mitiempo · 12-01-2022, 22:13

CS33 in Victoria for $27,500 CDN - about $22,000 US

https://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...ainingsociety&

Good condition, well equipped, Beta with 207 hours.

jeanathon · 13-01-2022, 06:15

https://panama.craigslist.org/bod/d/...?lang=en&cc=us

As they say in real estate. Location, location, location.

SuW · 13-01-2022, 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitiempo

CS33 in Victoria for $27,500 CDN - about $22,000 US
https://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...ainingsociety&
Good condition, well equipped, Beta with 207 hours.

Nice. Sails look OK. Interior upholstery is worn, but serviceable. Cushion foam looks OK. Running rigging is dirty, but looks OK. Primary winches are self-tailing.

Anchor gear is a little skimpy.

The price is a bit high, perhaps $22K Canadian would be more reasonable this time of year, but is has a nearly-new engine and these are good boats as coastal cruisers.

For once, I can't complain about the lack of pictures!

Steadman Uhlich · 13-01-2022, 10:54

MY COMBINED RESPONSES TO RECENT COMMENTS:

TO: Celestialsailor, hpeer, Tayana42, and to any others

Thanks for the friendly words of welcome (back). I do appreciate it.

______________

Steadman Uhlich · 13-01-2022, 10:57

TO ALL: The Roberts 45 I posted earlier is an example of a boat that begs questions. I like that CF members are using their sharp eyes to look over the boat so we can share observations of it (or other boats in this thread). Each of you sees different things, and that combination may help a newbie or potential boat buyer learn to look for those things, those cues or clues, to help them in the future when shopping for a boat. That is really what I like to see in this long-running thread. Each set of eyes may help others (including me) learn more about these boats in particular, and about older boats in general.

As I see it, the real value of this thread has been the introduction of boats, and the discussion of the possible things a potential buyer should look for or notice in the listing and the photos. The photos become our visual aids for discussion of designs, equipment seen, condition, maintenance issues, etc.

The participation of experienced sailors can help newbies (or anyone really) learn to see more in a sailboat listing, and that may help them avoid some pitfalls, but also see the potential in some especially good examples on the market.

So, thank you ALL for participating and for adding your comments to the discussion here. I read everyone’s comments (though I admit I was not on CF much in the past couple of years), and consider them all and appreciate the wisdom shared by you all.

Steadman Uhlich · 13-01-2022, 11:10

ABOUT THE ROBERTS 45: Fiberglass or Steel?

I agree with almost all of the comments posted about it so far. When I first viewed the photos, I also noticed the apparent surface rust stains and the “home built” construction and interior. But, I also noticed the smooth hull shape, and and the fact that the broker entered “Fiberglass” as the hull material made me consider possible reasons and possible confusing listing.

I have seen steel hull boats that are very smooth, with excellent curves and fairing (some use some external smoothing compound). Very "slick" looking hulls. It can be done, though usually those are very expensive hulls when new. But, it is not as common when one is looking at a Roberts design, especially given the finish shown in the interior of this boat which does look DIY.

When looking at the Roberts, it does show some indications of fiberglass being the hull material (I mentioned the lack of hard chine hull, which is typical for a Roberts steel boat) and of some steel too (rust stains is a giveaway). But, at this point I am still uncertain which material the hull is made from, since none of us has seen this boat (up close). I think it is hard to tell from the photos, though there are some clues or “signs.”

I write this not to discount the good observations made by other CF Members, as they have made some good points and good observations based on what they see in the photos.

Since we are all basing this on small photos, it is understandable if some things may be hard to see.

Here is how I see it: One thing that is very commonly seen on DIY steel boats is the use of "beefy" "robust" welded-on deck fittings, such as deck plates, deck cleats, eyes, stanchions, bollards, etc. I don’t see that in the photos of this particular boat. Instead, it appears that small items have been bolted on or screwed on.

Because those common “clues” are missing from this boat, it makes me think the builder did not weld much at all, as welders (and DIY steel boat builders) often get creative when making deck fittings, etc. So, that inclines me to think this is a fiberglass hull.

My guess (at this point) is that this boat was DIY built with a combination of materials (fiberglass hull, wood structural members, plywood boxes and cabinets, steel pieces or fittings) that are used in different places. If we were in a bar betting for bottles of beer, that would be my bet.

For example, the instrument box looks like painted plywood. The battery box looks like metal. The inside of the hull does look like it has been insulated with spray foam, and that is often done for steel hulls, but could have also been done to a fiberglass hull (DIY) if the boat was originally built for use in cold waters.

I suppose this will remain a debatable boat.

So, to help solve the question or to satisfy curiosity, I have sent an email to the boat broker, asking him to verify if the hull is steel or fiberglass. If the broker responds, I will let you all know what he says.

Steadman Uhlich · 13-01-2022, 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuW

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2004-bruce-roberts-flush-deck-7528966/

Some interior pictures that make me think the hull is steel.

One with batteries depicted, seems to show metal frames in green and perhaps a silver painted bilge on the right with what may be the transmission below.

One of the engine pictures shows a patch of rust on the overhead - probably a removable hatch over the engine; it was in the Roberts I have seen.

There's some steel inside the open lazarette. The lazarette cover looks to be steel.

The "toe rail" in one of the pictures with the windlass appears to be welded.

Also, the masts appears to be deck stepped, without much obvious support below deck.

There is an interior hull picture showing white insulation and what is probably a fuel tank on the left. Quite a bit of rust on the deck there, but the insulation is sprayed on, which is common in steel boats and appears to cover some relatively narrow strips of steel attached to frames. This may be the interior of the hull toward the after end and may be how the rounded chine was made.

As you mention, it is very unusual to have a round chine steel boat of this type. It's also fairly unusual to see such a late model (2004).

I have seen boats with fibreglass covering the steel. I wouldn't recommend this boat if that were the case, except as a marina live aboard.

I completely agree with you about the light in flush deck boats and this particular interior color scheme!

Good to see you back!

I enjoyed reading your comments, and appreciate your observations.

You saw things I did not see. And that is what I see as the value of sharing these boat photos and listings. It can help others see things they may have missed.

So, thanks for adding your nicely described observations and opinion.

And thanks too for the kind words of welcome back.

Steadman Uhlich · 13-01-2022, 11:38

TO ALL: RE: ROBERTS 45

I sent an email to the broker to ask him whether the hull was made of fiberglass or steel (see previous discussion comments in this thread, above).

I received a fast reply from the broker. Here is what he wrote:

"Hello Mr. Steadman, yes, the hull is challenging to describe. The hull is fiberglass with a steel frame, a real “ice breaker”.
Let me know if I can set up a showing, the owner is prepared to make someone a screaming deal.
Thanks
Jim Cash"

mitiempo · 13-01-2022, 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steadman Uhlich

[B]ABOUT THE ROBERTS 45: Fiberglass or Steel? [/B

So, to help solve the question or to satisfy curiosity, I have sent an email to the boat broker, asking him to verify if the hull is steel or fiberglass. If the broker responds, I will let you all know what he says.

I asked as well. Looks like everybody is sort of correct.

SuW · 13-01-2022, 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steadman Uhlich

TO ALL: RE: ROBERTS 45
I sent an email to the broker to ask him whether the hull was made of fiberglass or steel (see previous discussion comments in this thread, above).
I received a fast reply from the broker. Here is what he wrote:
"Hello Mr. Steadman, yes, the hull is challenging to describe. The hull is fiberglass with a steel frame, a real “ice breaker”.
Let me know if I can set up a showing, the owner is prepared to make someone a screaming deal.
Thanks
Jim Cash"

Interesting. So the hull was laid up and then the steel frame was put in place? Then bonded or fastened to the hull?

Or is it like some ferro boats, a metal frame of rebars covered in fibreglass?

I've seen a few home-built boats with fibreglass over steel and some others (ex-Maritime fishing boats) with fibreglass over wood. These were done once maintenance became a problem. They have lasted surprisingly well, considering all things, but they don't look as fair as that boat.

There seems to be a missing photo of the location of any compression posts to support the masts. There are a couple of narrow steel rods, but I'd expect more than that. Perhaps some very strong bulkheads?

It may seem that we're spending a lot of time on an unusual boat. However, your point about really looking by a detailed examination of photos is very important.