Boat Swamped - Should I walk away from the purchase?

[boatman61]

Walk... or you may have to swim..
Just kidding.. If it makes you happy and surveys clean.. Go for it.
As with any boat.. Only buy what you can afford to lose..
Like a coin flip its 50/50 heads or tails..

[Jspla]

I have a different take on this. If the boat yard does high quality work and the repairs were paid by the insurance company, then you have an opportunity to purchase a nice boat at a bargain price. This discount will transfer forward when you decide to sell the boat, however- it will also become less relevant to your future sell price as the years go by. You do have an opportunity to renegotiate price after survey, if problems found.

[Cee sea]

Boat swamped
I was faced with the same situation two years ago with actually the same manufacturer Beneteau . The first three boats we looked at had issues of running a ground one was fixed and the other two weren’t . The next one we looked at had no issues so I thought we bought it and I’m still fixing some of the issues with a used boat you really don’t know what you’re getting. I know how you feel about finding a boat you really like . Sounds that you’re getting a new boat

[Pete the Cat]

I hit a rock with my 35 year old boat at 7 knots. Didn’t sink, but did $25K damage to it. I took it to a very skilled and expensive yard and when they opened it up and repaired it (I followed the repair through pictures they sent) I am convinced the boat was rebuilt better than new. I would not turn away from this boat if it was a good deal, but I would have an independent and competent surveyor (now that might be the challenge here) do a run down. I feel that many of these large production boats were sketchily designed and constructed from the factory and believe that compentent (another challenge as there are some really terrible boat yards around) can rebuild most boats better than they were originally delivered. I know I have a more solid boat after seeing what the boat yard folks did to it in the repair. I never would have known its weaknesses had I not had the accident and repair.
Ray Durkee
Castine Maine

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by regex

No. Anything made in 2009 and 40 feet is going to be a pretty penny. However, we are looking at legitimately 30% under market. Based on nationwide comps.

If the seller did not disclose this upfront, and as a valid reason for a below market value price I would have no problem with giving it as a reason were it me, I would wonder what else has not been disclosed. You could be buying a world of hurt. I could not sell my yacht without full disclosure. I mean people could die from undeclared problems manifesting themselves into show stopping events in a boat. Couldn’t sleep at night....

[CaptRob725]

I think you should move forward with the survey and focus on the issues that are not apparent. I purchased a 1991 Moorings 38 (Beneteau 38) in Tortolla that had been run aground on a reef. There was evidence of water in the cabin but only 3” above the floor boards. It was professionally repaired and after the survey and further negotiations to a lower price I completed the purchase and sailed her back to Cape Cod. That was in 2000. I still own the boat and currently am moored in Kralendijk, Bonaire for the second year after running from Hurricanes Irma & Maria in Puerto Rico last year. We have cruised all of the Caribbean from USVI to Grenada. I have had no delamination of any kind or any issues with the rudder or keel/ hull. In fact this boat is one of the driest boats I have ever had. There is less than 1” of water in the bilge at any one time. With normal upkeep your boat will do fine and should serve you well for many years. Enjoy the experience.

[MCOS]

Price would be my quide since the invoices indicate a considerable amount of work to remedy the damage. Consider the value similar to a rebuilt / salvage repaired automobile. If you plan on keeping the boat for a number of years the fact that it has a glitch in its history will not matter much. If you sell within a few years, the past problem will most likely impact the selling price. Bottom line, if it is priced with consideration for the flooding it has undergone, I would not rule out purchasing.

[foothillsailor]

I would think you're better off buying a boat where you know what its issues might be and that has been professionally repaired than a boat with unknown or hidden history. If you like it and the price is right then have a rigorous sea trial and very, very thorough survey (including separate mechanical survey of engine). If all is good then buy it. As for a subsequent sale --- yes the price may be discounted because of its history but then again you will have purchased it a discount. Also the longer you run it without problems then the less concerns there will be from a future buyer when you go to sell it. I wouldn't reject it just because of its history and what MAY be possible problems....don't decide based on fears --- check it out and then decide based on found facts

[dbaublis]

Here's how I look at these kinds of issues. Think on it like this. What if you had the rudder incident on your own boat and had the repairs made by a reputable yard according to your and industry recommended standards? Would you continue to sail or 'total' the boat, selling it for whatever you could get? If you would keep your own boat after repairs, why not buy one in similar condition?

While you don't know exactly how the repairs were made, proof of shoddy work, especially after a number of years is generally evident and soundness of the boat is provable. Yes, there could be hidden damage but there could also be latent defects on a brand new boat that do not appear for years as well. The pedigree of the yard is not in question nor is the extent of the repair.

Seems the only question is the engine which has been running for 8 years or so. Annual oil analysis records should show extent of wear and any original damage. Time is on your side as far as proving reliability. A re-manufactured diesel installed would eat up a lot of your savings on the price, but not all at current yachtworld.com prices but that seems unlikely after the 8 years of operation.

So, the question remains, if this happened to you, would you have fixed your boat and kept going or sold it for whatever and moved on? I likely would have had it fixed with the support of the insurance company and blessing of my trusted surveyor.

[botanybay]

The issue here is salt water intrusion into who knows where.

I had to walk away from a boat which I had launched for an in the water survey (boat was in storage). 3K dollars later the surveyor recommended that I walk away due to the future cosmetic damage to cabinetry which would appear in the future.

This was a case of the yard removing a hatch and not replacing it during the winter and significant moisture intrusion.

The question is how far is swamped... If it is above the floorboards where the moisture has wicked into the bottom of the bulkheads I would almost certainly walk away. The future bleeding of discoloration from the backside of the bulkheads would be very difficult to control.

In addition, if there are any wiring connections below the level of the salt water you are into salt water in the wiring. That will be the start of a major nightmare.

Being that they had to replace the starter and other engine equipment it is a concern.

As others have said, if this was fully disclosed at the beginning and the price reflected the significant risk going forward then it might be a great boat for someone. But without a huge difference between the price of other equivalent vessels I would not consider it myself.

[cuthbert]

Really interesting thread.

Bottom line for me would be if I loved the boat I too would move ahead with a purchase, however:-

1) Plus- I do like that boatyard and have been very happy with work they have done for me. Ask them for any before/after photos they took.
2) Minus - My experience with surveyors has been - variable. I would recommend that for peace of mind, read a few more books and deepen your knowledge and then spend many, many hours of careful examination of everything yourself and bring a cynical friend to keep you honest.

Look to borrow a 4 wire milliohm meter and with the batteries disconnected check to get less than 2 milliohms between each connection (faying) surface. If you have any corrosion or damage in the wiring it will show as deterioration of continuity. I would be curious if the surveyor would offer to/can do this.
Secondly, does the engine survey include a compression test? If water gets in a cylinder it does not yield and something else does instead.

I often walk/cycle the beach path between MDR and Santa Monica and think that people who sail close to the shore for many miles (it's a common occurrence) are nuts, it doesn't offer any greater views and certainly (to a sailor) doesn't look cool, but a bit reckless. One minor hiccup or loss of concentration and its a grounding. Maybe that was not what happened in this instance, did the seller explain what happened? Did something fail leading to the grounding and it was too close to anchor, start the engine, whatever?

[Uber Viking]

Failure to fully disclose, that lack of transparency really would bother me. I do not like to do business with someone that has been dishonest with me. I would have to get a significant discount and a three to five year indemnification for as yet unidentified damage. If the seller is being honest he is not taking a risk and it eliminates yours.

[GBR134]

Jezz I’d reckon all the rebuilt/replaced stuff would be better than original and the resulting reliability of the new would counterbalance the added risk of the old failing 3 years after it got a soaking. I am not familiar with the construction of this model but I really doubt that the structure is in any way weakened by the salt intrusion. If boat is 10 years old and even if it’s never been wet you have to expect deterioration of electrics Both wiring and components. How many other similar aged boats are you going to view that have had water saturation and a grounding or two that is unreported and has not been as thoroughly checked without any disclosure. Most boats ground at some point in their life and owners are reluctant to disclose if no apparent damage done. With this boat you know the issues, you know what was repaired and what wasn’t. I’d be entirely guided by my choice of surveyor and take the 30% discount as a bonus. I see no reason to expect more hassle from this one than another similar model with no known issues. Mind you I might try another haggle as we all like a bargain!

[jkxtreme]

We used to sell real estate and dreaded listing a sink hole house. It always has that stigma and finding buyers who will look past the sink hole issue was difficult. Even if it was repaired correctly and looked beautiful, it was always a "sink hole house". The value would typically be 1/3 to 1/2 of other similar homes on the market, no matter what we did to it. I don't know if the boat world is identical but I'll bet it's similar. We walked away from a motor yacht that had a number of fair sized soft spots repaired. If the boat is really calling your name then go for it if you can get it at a really good price, just keep in mind that the history stays with the boat.

[ebsail]

I once bought a 1970 Columbia 43 which had been damaged and repaired although not swamped. The repairs were structual, due to dropping off a 40 foot wave in the Atlantic, according to the owner. Even though the repairs were not done as well as the yard stated, and I had to redo some of them, the boat's price was low enough, and I had a wonderful 9 years of ownership, which I still miss. A careful look by an experienced surveyor may be worth it. Yes you will have some problems left over from this but it sounds like the insurance company covered everything possibleat the time, and I would still consider the boat, contrary to all the other opinions