Boat cradles..whats the deal?

[LauraleeG]

We have a 38' Landfall C+C. It came with a cradle but an old , wooden, impractical thing, too heavy and a bitch to trailer where we are keeping the boat.
So whats the deal with cradles? If I buy used, what should I be looking for? How will I know the cradle will work? Are the pads adjustable? Are cradles specific to the boat or are they adjustable based on length?Does longer than needed matter?
Thanks!

[tkeithlu]

With a boat that size, usual practice is to put the keel on blocks to support the weight, and adjustable braces to handle the balance. That's a pretty simple process, so owning and keeping a made-to-order cradle seems to me more trouble than it's worth.

[kenbo]

I noticed that after Sandy that the boats in cradles had a better survival chance than those on blocks and Jack stands. Floating debris and other boats easily knocked other boats off their stands, cradles not do much.

But if your area is not subject to storm surge or flood water than blocks and stands are fine.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by LauraleeG

We have a 38' Landfall C+C. It came with a cradle but an old , wooden, impractical thing, too heavy and a bitch to trailer where we are keeping the boat.
So whats the deal with cradles? If I buy used, what should I be looking for? How will I know the cradle will work? Are the pads adjustable? Are cradles specific to the boat or are they adjustable based on length?Does longer than needed matter?
Thanks!

Around Toronto, I see a lot of folding steel cradles made by these folks.

The 'deal' is

• they're sturdier than wood or jackstands
• easier to store, move and set up
• they will last a long time with just simple maintenance (...paint, grease)
• you can pick up the boat plus cradle with a Conolift and move it around the yard

Most cradles have adjustable pads but the leg and keel supports are fixed. Cradles are custom-made for the boat.I wouldn't look at a used cradle unless it was a near-perfect match and/or I've budgeted for welded alterations.

[Tetepare]

We winter store at the same marina we dock. Some people rent jack stands at about $500/ year. Our steel cradle has paid for itself over the 25 years of owning this boat.

I don’t worry about support because the cradle is adjusted for the boat- yes the pads are adjustable. Also I don’t worry about improper support by the marina crew because on haul out the boat is set on its own cradle, not on the hydraulic pads.

A sister ship suffers hull flex after being hauled with the big hydraulic carrier and setting on jack stands. Something not externally visible was damaged. Doesn’t happen often but does happen.

For us it’s both economic and peace of mind since we have to haul annually and sit on the hard for six months

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

The 'deal' is:

A couple more points:

• (as per tetepare) If built and adjusted properly, they're always 'right'. No guessing, no fiddling.
• Up here, where we have a boating season, you have thousands of boats going in and out at about the same time every year. I once belonged to a club that could launch and haul out 450 boats in two days, with mainly volunteer labour (... everyone but crane operators). That wouldn't be possible if every boat had to be blocked and stands deployed. For most Toronto yacht clubs, cradles are mandatory.

[Tetepare]

ETA talk to your storage facility. If they make cradles fine, if not, ask who does. Get a quote. Or, ask if the marina has an unused one that would fit.

Compare that to jack stand rental. In my observation, payoff is 4-5 years.

Note also after the big rains two years ago I saw at least a dozen jack stand boats that had tipped over when the stands- even on plywood- sank into the mud.

[Ken Pole]

Those wooden cradles, as I understand it, were designed solely for shipping from the factory. Given the 38LF's keel/hull configuration, you should be good with jackstands but a steel cradle is arguably best for long-term storage.

[stormalong]

In places like Chicago boats are actually out of the water more time than in. The boating season in Chicago is only five months.

Storage cradles are far safer than jack stands and as others have said cheaper in the long run. They used to be mostly wood but now are steel. The better/larger boatyards have cradle fabrication on site. They can handle mast up storage with greater safety during those winter wind storms. It is amazing how much vibration is caused by 60 MPH winds.

[RobertoD]

Check Cradleman in Toronto - usually adverts in local publications. Builds and moves cradles and often has used cradles. Excellent work and very helpful. Then cradle is sold with the boat unless you need it. I Currently have a C&C 37 on one of his cradles. He is on-line.

[TrentePieds]

Laura:

Think it through :-) Your Landfall weighs 10 tonnes. Thassa lot of weight!

When she's in the water the weight is taken uniformly by the "canoe body", the underwater part of the hull sans keel. When she's on the hard, the weight has to be taken by the keel and the few small places of the canoe boy that actually touch something solid. That concentrates the weight enormously in a very few places.

So the way we deal with it is that the keel is blocked up to take ALL the weight. It can do that because for these purposes it's essentially a metal beam. Focusing ALL the weight on the keel stresses the boat somewhat, but obviously the rest of the structure of the hull is made sturdy enough to take it so that it will not deform.

So all we have to do now is keep the boat upright while it's "balanced" on the keel. That's where the cradle comes in. The "legs" (called "stanchions") are made telescopically adjustable, and the "pads" that the boat leans against can swivel in all three planes. Thus the cradle is universal (given it's the right general size, of course).

The fore'n'aft placement of the stanchions should coincide with the fore'n'aft placement of bulkheads which act as internal braces. Yard's cradles therefore have stanchions that can "lean" in the fore'n'aft direction and be adjusted for the distance twixt bulkheads in the particular boat that has to be cradled.

All good yards have very well made cradles, and they can generally be handled by ginormous forklifts when they need to be moved, even with a boat in them. Normal practice is to take an empty cradle to the slip serviced by the TraveLift or crane, haul the boat, set it in the cradle, adjust the stanchions and then transport the cradle with the boat in it to its assigned place in the yard. The cradle has a "backbone" to take the weight of the boat via the keel.

A wooden cradle is much more difficult to handle than a metal one and far less secure. Therefore yards will tend to refuse to handle wooden cradles. The rent of space "on the hard" usually includes rent of the yard's metal cradle.

Hope that clarifies things

TrentePieds

[sailortype]

you do have to do some homework and find out where the bulkheads and other supporting structures are (stringers,etc) in your boat. It is virtually impossible to buy a used cradle and have it fit your boat so at least some modifications will be required. There are numerous boats on cradles in the marina with their hulls being pushed in because there is just unsupported hull above the pads. And once indented, the fibreglass may not bounce back.
The other thing to do once you do have a suitable cradle is to
-clearly mark bow and stern ends (some get reversed)
-and make notes or markings to locate the boat properly on the cradle in future lifts. The marinas are often in a hurry at lift out time and sometimes you will not be there so specific instructions are needed.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Laura:

Think it through :-) Your Landfall weighs 10 tonnes. Thassa lot of weight!

When she's in the water the weight is taken uniformly by the "canoe body", the underwater part of the hull sans keel. When she's on the hard, the weight has to be taken by the keel and the few small places of the canoe boy that actually touch something solid. That concentrates the weight enormously in a very few places.

So the way we deal with it is that the keel is blocked up to take ALL the weight. It can do that because for these purposes it's essentially a metal beam. Focusing ALL the weight on the keel stresses the boat somewhat, but obviously the rest of the structure of the hull is made sturdy enough to take it so that it will not deform.

So all we have to do now is keep the boat upright while it's "balanced" on the keel. That's where the cradle comes in. The "legs" (called "stanchions") are made telescopically adjustable, and the "pads" that the boat leans against can swivel in all three planes. Thus the cradle is universal (given it's the right general size, of course).

The fore'n'aft placement of the stanchions should coincide with the fore'n'aft placement of bulkheads which act as internal braces. Yard's cradles therefore have stanchions that can "lean" in the fore'n'aft direction and be adjusted for the distance twixt bulkheads in the particular boat that has to be cradled.

All good yards have very well made cradles, and they can generally be handled by ginormous forklifts when they need to be moved, even with a boat in them. Normal practice is to take an empty cradle to the slip serviced by the TraveLift or crane, haul the boat, set it in the cradle, adjust the stanchions and then transport the cradle with the boat in it to its assigned place in the yard. The cradle has a "backbone" to take the weight of the boat via the keel.

A wooden cradle is much more difficult to handle than a metal one and far less secure. Therefore yards will tend to refuse to handle wooden cradles. The rent of space "on the hard" usually includes rent of the yard's metal cradle.

Hope that clarifies things

TrentePieds

Not generally how its done in my experience. Normally your boat gets haulled by the travellift, bottom sprayed off and then they "drive" the boat over to where the cradle has been positioned and then they place the boat on the cradle, make minor adjustments to the fit and then release the straps and back the travellift out.

What you describe only happens on very small boats ( typically 25ft and smaller.)

A cradle is better and generally safer as long as the base is wide enough. I have seen sailboats in cradles fall over from wind but usually they are really tall and narrow cradles. C&C uses to have their "shipping cradles made of mostly metal with big plywood supports cut to fit the hull precisely.

Some yards (the one I'm at) won't let you winter with the mast up if you are on stands so that is an added expense to de-mast every winter and raise it in the spring. on the flip side a cradle sort of tie you to a specific storage yard as they are a bit of a pain to move to a new yard!

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Not generally how its done in my experience. Normally your boat gets haulled by the travellift, bottom sprayed off and then they "drive" the boat over to where the cradle has been positioned and then they place the boat on the cradle, make minor adjustments to the fit and then release the straps and back the travellift out.

What you describe only happens on very small boats ( typically 25ft and smaller.)

A cradle is better and generally safer as long as the base is wide enough. I have seen sailboats in cradles fall over from wind but usually they are really tall and narrow cradles. C&C uses to have their "shipping cradles made of mostly metal with big plywood supports cut to fit the hull precisely.

Some yards (the one I'm at) won't let you winter with the mast up if you are on stands so that is an added expense to de-mast every winter and raise it in the spring. on the flip side a cradle sort of tie you to a specific storage yard as they are a bit of a pain to move to a new yard!

Boat yards with unlimited space may move the boat to the cradle. That would require space on either side of the boat for the travellift. Most boatyards do not have that much available space so the boat is put on the cradle in a staging area and then the boat and cradle are moved to the storage location together. Often with less than a foot between boats. A hydraulic trailer specifically designed to move cradles does an amazing job of optimizing yard space.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by stormalong

Boat yards with unlimited space may move the boat to the cradle. That would require space on either side of the boat for the travellift. Most boatyards do not have that much available space so the boat is put on the cradle in a staging area and then the boat and cradle are moved to the storage location together. Often with less than a foot between boats. A hydraulic trailer specifically designed to move cradles does an amazing job of optimizing yard space.

Seen a few yards with the hydraulic trailer to move boats around from time to time but I've not yet seen a yard pack boats so close together that a travellift isn't the primary way of stacking boats. Its common on the great lakes, chesapeake, and hudson valley to do all the work with a travellift ( at least the yards I've used) anyway, we're drifting.

The OP if they are thinking long term should really think about investing in a good cradle. 3-4 supports per side. If they are getting a new custom cradle made I would go as far as to try to get the supports placed where the bulkheads are.