Bluewater - Hanse / Swan / Oyster

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by savoir

I just received an email notice about this old thread. I'll repeat what I said to the OP - are you sure you understand the difficulty of running a 60 footer ? I keep my boat in Rhode Island and large plush cruisers come through there every day. It is quite rare to see a family crewed boat larger than 54ft. Bigger boats tend to have professional crew and at the very least a captain. There is good reason for this - boats of that size are a real handful.

Are you confident that your wife can complete a sail change at 2am in 20ft seas ? Do you have the mechanical skills to maintain the systems on a 60 footer ? Boats of that size are always complex.

On the other hand there are plenty of family crewed cruisers in the 45 - 50ft size bracket. Do the owners of these boats know something ? Take a look at the Swan 46 or 48. Hylas have a very attractive 46 Here is an Oyster 49 right near me that should suit your needs.
https://au.yachtworld.com/boats/2015...r-475-3540141/

Of the boats you have mentioned Swan will sail the best and Oyster will be the most comfy.

I don't think there is any material difference between the complexity of "running" a modern high end 60 footer vs a modern high end 49 footer. The systems will be more or less the same. You would do sail changes in 20 foot seas on NEITHER, I guarantee you. That's why you have all-furling rigs and staysails, on this type of boat.


The big difference between a 60 footer and a 54-er is that the 60 footer will typically have decent accomodation for professional crew. If you can afford to buy a high end 60 footer, then you can afford some crew, at least one guy, and this is a huge blessing, and would be on a 40 footer too except you wouldn't have room for him.


I had professional crew on my boat the first 3 years and will probably do so again starting this year although it squeezes accomodation somewhat on my boat, which has 7 berths excluding the salon.

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by savoir

65% ? ? ? I'm surprised it is that high.

Yes. They're obviously trying to sell something, but still, false advertising isn't legal.

65% would be about 6.9% yearly depreciation. In the depreciation model I've made for our own Hanse, we're now at -7.7% during our first year.

Earlier I figured out that the asking price for 3-4 year old Hanses seemed to be based on an 5% yearly depreciation.

Anyway, I hope that mass production and standardization will result in better resale value.

[Eleuthera 2014]

Why is anyone answering this individual... he has not posted since 2016!!!

Get a life girls and boys! :-)

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by Eleuthera 2014

Why is anyone answering this individual... he has not posted since 2016!!!

Get a life girls and boys! :-)

Because it was bumped for updated 2020 feedback a few days ago...

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post3050326

Originally Posted by MMirandsa

Dockhead, few years since you posted this... 2020 now! Please be so kind to mention which would be your preferable choice/choices for the referred kind of sailing.

Similar situation as that from the thread origin: boat to circumnavigate with my wife. Aiming for 57 ft to 62 ft boat.

Thank you and happy new year!

[savoir]

Originally Posted by Eleuthera 2014

Why is anyone answering this individual... he has not posted since 2016!!!

Get a life girls and boys! :-)

Take a careful look at post #1.

[savoir]

Originally Posted by mglonnro

Yes. They're obviously trying to sell something, but still, false advertising isn't legal.

65% would be about 6.9% yearly depreciation. In the depreciation model I've made for our own Hanse, we're now at -7.7% during our first year.

Earlier I figured out that the asking price for 3-4 year old Hanses seemed to be based on an 5% yearly depreciation.

Anyway, I hope that mass production and standardization will result in better resale value.

The demand for ex ( by 6 years ) charter 67 footers is teensy tiny. If you were to say that the price was reduced by 65% I would believe that. ie reduced to 35% of the new price.

[Steamer]

Originally Posted by MMirandsa

boat to circumnavigate with my wife. Aiming for 57 ft to 62 ft boat.

Any boat needs to be prepared for RTW sailing.

Friend of mine willing to sell his 2004 built aluminum 60-ft fast cruiser located in French Med. Bouthruster/genset and other features are there.

Asking Eur 185k. Nice price for further and proper upgrade....

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by savoir

The demand for ex ( by 6 years ) charter 67 footers is teensy tiny. If you were to say that the price was reduced by 65% I would believe that. ie reduced to 35% of the new price.

Maybe demand will go up if people turn away from air travel but still want to cross oceans

[savoir]

Is Greta looking for a boat ?

[CarlF]

If there are only 2 of you, the problem isn't sailing a 78' boat -- it's maintaining one without professional crew. I can't tell if you are definitely planning to have crew - or not.

Go down to a dock and look at 78ft boats - you'll find crew cleaning, polishing and fixing. That's what crew do most of the time. There are acres of fiberglass (or so it seems). After a day with a toothbrush and metal polish cleaning stainless rails - your girlfriend won't be in the mood you'd like.

If you've never maintained a large teak deck - you simply have no idea how the sight of bird poop or a dropped potato chip will set your teeth on edge. And a luxury cruising boat like an Oyster will typically have 20+ pumps - each capable of clogging or breaking at 2AM.

The problem with the elegant "bespoke" gear that is often found on an Oyster is that when it breaks in the South Pacific, you need to wait a week while a part is flown in, clears customs, and is installed by a local boatyard guy who's never seen one of those before -- so puts it in wrong - or worse, strips a thread during installation and you have to fly another one in. Oysters are great boats but a lot of complexity comes with their elegance.

I'd second the suggestion of a new build Amel 60 as a great "money-no-problem" circumnavigating monohull for a couple. Not only is this set up for a couple to sail but also for a couple to maintain. Of all major builders, Amel is among the best at making an extremely reliable boat.

And after you look at the Amel 60 - look at the Amel 50. There's even less to clean.

[savoir]

60ft Amels are quite rare. I see family crewed 54 and 55ft Amels all the time. The ketch rig has a lot to do with it.

[Sojourner]

Originally Posted by savoir

60ft Amels are quite rare. I see family crewed 54 and 55ft Amels all the time. The ketch rig has a lot to do with it.

Their new 60ft sloop is pretty choice, but I still wouldn't trade for our 53. Sailing is not an issue even singlehanded, especially not an amel--everything is pushbutton and from the center cockpit. However, docking, maintenance, cleaning and emergencies (electrics/hydraulics failure) on anything bigger would be the deal breaker without paid help.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by CarlF

If there are only 2 of you, the problem isn't sailing a 78' boat -- it's maintaining one without professional crew. I can't tell if you are definitely planning to have crew - or not.

Go down to a dock and look at 78ft boats - you'll find crew cleaning, polishing and fixing. That's what crew do most of the time. There are acres of fiberglass (or so it seems). After a day with a toothbrush and metal polish cleaning stainless rails - your girlfriend won't be in the mood you'd like.

If you've never maintained a large teak deck - you simply have no idea how the sight of bird poop or a dropped potato chip will set your teeth on edge. And a luxury cruising boat like an Oyster will typically have 20+ pumps - each capable of clogging or breaking at 2AM.

The problem with the elegant "bespoke" gear that is often found on an Oyster is that when it breaks in the South Pacific, you need to wait a week while a part is flown in, clears customs, and is installed by a local boatyard guy who's never seen one of those before -- so puts it in wrong - or worse, strips a thread during installation and you have to fly another one in. Oysters are great boats but a lot of complexity comes with their elegance.

I'd second the suggestion of a new build Amel 60 as a great "money-no-problem" circumnavigating monohull for a couple. Not only is this set up for a couple to sail but also for a couple to maintain. Of all major builders, Amel is among the best at making an extremely reliable boat.

And after you look at the Amel 60 - look at the Amel 50. There's even less to clean.

I agree with your thoughts on maintaining all the complexity on big boats, but having trouble trying to come up with which ‘bespoke’ parts on an Oyster are any different than on other boats. I’ve owned a Hinckley, a Nordic, and now a Tayana, and all 3 were equipped with off the shelf parts that lots of other boats use as well. The custom parts are generally parts that don’t often need replacing such as a custom bow roller. I also recently helped a friend prepare his Oyster for an ocean passage and in the process ended up poking my nose into most of the boat and I can’t remember noticing any moving parts that you wouldn’t see on lots of production boats. The generator, engine, transmission, prop, electronics, winches, rigging, electric davits, hydraulic pump, windlass, etc. were all ‘off the shelf’ just like on every other boat I’ve been aboard. What else that is likely to break on an Oyster are you thinking of that I’m apparently missing?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

I agree with your thoughts on maintaining all the complexity on big boats, but having trouble trying to come up with which ‘bespoke’ parts on an Oyster are any different than on other boats. I’ve owned a Hinckley, a Nordic, and now a Tayana, and all 3 were equipped with off the shelf parts that lots of other boats use as well. The custom parts are generally parts that don’t often need replacing such as a custom bow roller. I also recently helped a friend prepare his Oyster for an ocean passage and in the process ended up poking my nose into most of the boat and I can’t remember noticing any moving parts that you wouldn’t see on lots of production boats. The generator, engine, transmission, prop, electronics, winches, rigging, electric davits, hydraulic pump, windlass, etc. were all ‘off the shelf’ just like on every other boat I’ve been aboard. What else that is likely to break on an Oyster are you thinking of that I’m apparently missing?

I agree with that. The only thing "bespoke" on an Oyster is the joinery. All the deck gear, rigging, machinery, main systems, are off the shelf and all the same stuff you find on any other high end boat and even some mass produced boats.

[slug]

Originally Posted by lindabarzini

If price isn't a problem, I would also look at the new Amel 64. The protected helm station is a great idea during bad weather. The luxuries are pretty nice too.

You have a good eye for boats

A protected wheelhouse, cockpit is the most important feature for a long range yacht

Amel has a good reputation

It should be at the top of you shopping list