Bluewater Cruising Capability

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Cruiser2B

Doodles, Please read the quote in the post you are replying to. I quoted VT when he said jiffy pop spray....bs....more bs,.... anyway my point was that I am sure boats today will be around for many many years to come. Sorry if i wasnt clear.

Sorry it's me that wasn't clear. I meant my remarks to be in support of yours ... agree 110%.

[wolfenzee]

Originally Posted by Cruiser2B

Wolf, i am sure your boat, along with those being produced today will be here in 40 yrs just as my alberg is here after 40 yrs. Mr VT claims to be an engineer of no less that the areo space indusrty but claims that boats of today will not "stand the test of Time". Very odd statement for an engineer of years past to question the integrity of engineers of today

Back when your Alberg was built fiberglass and resins were not understood as well as today so boats were seriously over built.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by vtcapo

When I went to school for Aerospace engineering, commercial aircraft were designed with “overbuild” in mind.

Let me guess... back in the sextants-in-the-cockpit days, when aerospace engineers distinguished themselves by carrying larger slide rules than chemistry majors? Back when jiffy-pop was an frightening new technology? Back before they built Dreamliners of 80% composite materials?

The good old days, for sure. Yep. Better "overbuilt" aeroplanes--better "overbuilt" sailboats. And as for the popcorn.....

[vtcapo]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

I hope you were using my boat as an example of the type that stands the test of time. My boat is 40 years old with 40,000-50,000nm under the keel. Hull is 1"thick top nailed strip plank mahagony on double 2x3" frames at 12" centers with 2 layers of fiberglass on the outside (using epoxy resin), 3-piece laminated 47' (stepped on keel) Sitka Spruce mast, 1/4" 316SS rigging, Vetus M415 (1500cc Mitsubishi engine 33hp) etc....

Wood Atkins Double Enders and their more modern fiberglass counterparts the Rafiki’s, Tayana’s ,WestSail’s and of course my Slocum to name a few all share the same design philosophy. Build them strong. Build them to last. Why would you want it any other way?

Then again I may just be showing my age. Today’s market is all about speed and accommodations. Not that this is a bad thing unless the manufacturer and his bean counters are sacrificing structural integrity for the bottom line.

RT

[Cruiser2B]

Originally Posted by vtcapo

Wood Atkins Double Enders and their more modern fiberglass counterparts the Rafiki’s, Tayana’s ,WestSail’s and of course my Slocum to name a few all share the same design philosophy. Build them strong. Build them to last. Why would you want it any other way?

Then again I may just be showing my age. Today’s market is all about speed and accommodations. Not that this is a bad thing unless the manufacturer and his bean counters are sacrificing structural integrity for the bottom line.

RT

I hate to argue because i feel like i am wasting precious minutes of my life, but please support your claim where structural integrity is sacrificed. you have already stated your boat was "over built" meaning that todays boats are adequately built(assuming you are using todays boats as a standard to say that your is overbuilt, there was no standard for fiberglass boats in 1960's)....not over built and material wasted. Please support your claims, it really helps support your argument

[wolfenzee]

Originally Posted by vtcapo

Wood Atkins Double Enders and their more modern fiberglass counterparts the Rafiki’s, Tayana’s ,WestSail’s and of course my Slocum to name a few all share the same design philosophy. Build them strong. Build them to last. Why would you want it any other way?

Then again I may just be showing my age. Today’s market is all about speed and accommodations. Not that this is a bad thing unless the manufacturer and his bean counters are sacrificing structural integrity for the bottom line.

RT

My boat is a William Atkin design, but not a double ender....granted it isn't spacious like alot of the big beam double enders you were talking about, because the man that commissioned the design wanted a fast, easily handled single hander and that's what she is. A tight little ship in construction that is cozy in accomidations

[Cruiser2B]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

My boat is a William Atkin design, but not a double ender....granted it isn't spacious like alot of the big beam double enders you were talking about, because the man that commissioned the design wanted a fast, easily handled single hander and that's what she is. A tight little ship in construction that is cozy in accomidations

would love to see a picture. There is a dreadnaught 32(tahiti ketch)in our marina that looks very traditional and salty. I love the old traditional sailboats especially wooden ones

[vtcapo]

Originally Posted by Bash

Let me guess... back in the sextants-in-the-cockpit days, when aerospace engineers distinguished themselves by carrying larger slide rules than chemistry majors? Back when jiffy-pop was an frightening new technology? Back before they built Dreamliners of 80% composite materials?

The good old days, for sure. Yep. Better "overbuilt" aeroplanes--better "overbuilt" sailboats. And as for the popcorn.....

Every time you get on an "aeroplane" Bash thank your lucky stars they are "overbuilt". Both plane and boat share the same dilemma, trying to stay together when traveling through a fluid that can be daunting and unpredictable.

"And as for popcorn".... I bet you are an authority.

RT

[wolfenzee]

Originally Posted by Cruiser2B

would love to see a picture. There is a dreadnaught 32(tahiti ketch)in our marina that looks very traditional and salty. I love the old traditional sailboats especially wooden ones

[vtcapo]

Originally Posted by Cruiser2B

I hate to argue because i feel like i am wasting precious minutes of my life, but please support your claim where srtuctural integrity is sacrificed. you have already stated your boat was "over built" meaning that todays boats are adequately built(assuming you are using todays boats as a standard to say that your is overbuilt, there was no standard for fiberglass boats in 1960's)....not over built and material wasted. Please support your claims, it really helps support your argument

Are you kidding? We all know what manufacturers have sacrificed structural integrity for the bottom line. Go to manufacturer forums and read some of the horror stories.

As far as my 37' 1985 Slocum being overbuilt..... She's 28k lbs with 11,200 ballast on a 32' waterline. And she's Airex cored! I'd say that's over built but that's the way I like it. That's also the reason she can throw up 900+ sq. ft of sail and do 7+ knots in 12-15 knot breeze.

Besides I can't help myself. I'm Italian and I like my women with a little meat on their bones....

RT

[wolfenzee]

My boat was the builders last boat so he built for himself.....no bottom line to worry about, just a life time of experience to get it right

[Blue Crab]

Gents, I'm not sure there's much more to say here. I don't think the OP got an answer, nor can there be an answer with much agreement. The bs factor is getting more intense as arguments need to be buttressed. On the internet everybody's an expert. I sure am.

If a Trekka, a Shrimpy, a Piver plywood trimaran with polyester resin are all bluewater cruising capable, and the facts say they are, then pretty much most boats are; a point made many times in this never ending thread that has drifted further than debris from Japan.

What I hate to read, and I think it lessens the value of the forum as well, is the continuing argument that old fashioned boats sail as well, or are better in any relevant way than modern designs. Love yer boats mates but don't lay no boogie woogie on the kings of rock n roll.

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by Cruiser2B

I hate to argue because i feel like i am wasting precious minutes of my life, but please support your claim where structural integrity is sacrificed. you have already stated your boat was "over built" meaning that todays boats are adequately built(assuming you are using todays boats as a standard to say that your is overbuilt, there was no standard for fiberglass boats in 1960's)....not over built and material wasted. Please support your claims, it really helps support your argument

He said "Not that this is a bad thing unless the manufacturer and his bean counters are sacrificing structural integrity for the bottom line", the implication begin that structural integrity is one of the features that could be lost for the benefit of speed and accommodations.

Why did you jump on that?

[wolfenzee]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

Gents, I'm not sure there's much more to say here. I don't think the OP got an answer, nor can there be an answer with much agreement. The bs factor is getting more intense as arguments need to be buttressed. On the internet everybody's an expert. I sure am.

If a Trekka, a Shrimpy, a Piver plywood trimaran with polyester resin are all bluewater cruising capable, and the facts say they are, then pretty much most boats are; a point made many times in this never ending thread that has drifted further than debris from Japan.

What I hate to read, and I think it lessens the value of the forum as well, is the continuing argument that old fashioned boats sail as well, or are better in any relevant way than modern designs. Love yer boats mates but don't lay no boogie woogie on the kings of rock n roll.

What bugs me equally as much is all old design boats are lumped together to point out how they are all inferior to all modern design boats
and in music the kings of rock n roll would be considered old fashion compared to the modern stuff

[Tim Godber]

Ah! Sounds like your old design behaves like my LH, Ted Hood certainly designed boats that like sailing, of course its a matter of balance. My main point though, is that this thread is about what boat to go to sea in, and boats that bend (Bendy toys?) are not what I want in serious weather! My LH definitely doesnt bend! I saw a holed Jeanneau in Turkey this summer, and I was quite shocked at the lack of hull thickness. The argument will no doubt be that modern techniques allow lighter build and better boat speed, bendy boats are not of necessity bad, but I know where I would rather be in bad weather way out at sea!