Best Blue Water 40 Ft. Boats from the 90's

[RDW]

I am biased and have my boat for sale. It is a 46 Morris sloop on which I recently completed the World Arc. It was heavily refit for the trip and will probably sell for less than the refit cost.
If anyone is interested it is in Annapolis
Forbes@forbesyachts.com
rdw

[VChild]

I don’t disagree that many newer boats have better performance specs due to high tech cored materials that make them lighter and faster, but I’m not so sure they generally outperform in comfort and sea-kindly motion offshore in heavy weather when compared to a few of the older, heavier designs of the same size.
So, it really depends on what you’re looking for. Every boat is a compromise of some sort.
Bobbing like a cork in steep seas on a light-weight modern 40 footer compared to the gentle motion of a full keel 30,000+ pound double ender can mean the difference between a happy cruising couple and a wife that calls it quits to cruising. Not to mention the difference between a plush, furniture quality teak interior versus a bland, fake, plasticky, squeaky space below decks.
And not all older designs sail like dogs. If designed to accommodate enough sail area, some do very well especially when the going gets rough due to the larger sail area combined with their directional stability versus getting tossed around.
And, some of the older designs just look awesome.
But, older doesn’t always mean cheaper when looking at total costs. That depends on your ultimate goal for the boat.
Older Water boats">blue water boats can seem to be a bargain and sometimes are if recently restored and then suddenly put on the market in a distress sale, but be careful. Usually the purchase price is just the beginning, like a down payment. After 30 plus years, all systems are suspect, so don’t underestimate the cost of a total restoration on an older boat. Not that a total restoration is always needed to make it safe offshore. But you need to consider the replacement costs of some of the more expensive and crucial systems:
Engine, transmission, fuel tanks and lines, miles of corroded wiring, outdated electrical panels, worn-out steering systems, corroded chainplates, standing rigging with metal fatigue, worn out sails, corroded end-of-life anchor chain, leaking water tanks and holding tanks, frozen and corroded thu-hulls, all hoses, water pumps, macerator pumps, water heater, refrigeration, battery banks, battery chargers, delaminated decking, blistered hull…you get the picture…everything but the fiberglass (if you’re lucky like I was).
My point is, its easy to look at a classic old boat with a low, affordable price and imagine how beautiful it will be when you “fix it up” into your dream boat. Again, you may not need it to be a dream boat to make it safe and useable but that is the route I chose. I have no regrets but the costs were way more than I expected. I could have bought new, but I fell in love with the offshore comfort and classic looks of some of the older styles. I cannot overstate the comfort level. My wife and I have chartered modern design, lighter weight boats of the same size and larger, and she has easily become seasick with their motion in heavy seas, but almost never on our boat.
The trick is finding one that was well designed, solidly built and has “good bones”.
Though hard to find, especially in pristine condition, as few of them were ever built, I chose the Lord Nelson 41. It’s a classically beautiful, rock solid circumnavigator with oversized deck hardware, mast and rigging and extremely comfortable motion in heavy weather. It has a gorgeous solid Burmese teak interior, plush seating and stone countertops down below, and a well-planned blue water layout. And yet, it has respectable performance for its class with a Sail Area to Displacement Ratio over 17 due to its large bowsprit which accomodates an oversize headsail (most of the above mentioned classics have SA/Disp ratio in the range of only 14-16, eg. Taswell, Pacific Seacraft, Valiant, Tayana, Passport, Freedom, Tashiba, Caliber). It has an abundance of beautiful teak and yet is an exception to the rule of “Leaky Teaky’s” because, unlike most of the classics of that era, the Lord Nelson has no screws into cored decks. Of course teak decks need some regular cleaning and are not for everyone, but they are undeniably beautiful, and a great non-skid surface. After 30 years of sanding them away by previous owners, I elected to replace them with brand new teak (expoxied down with no screws). Snap-on Sunbrella covers over all the teak while in storage absolutely minimizes the maintenance. While a bucket of fresh seawater tossed on them every few days while cruising keeps them clean and fresh.
Bringing a vessel like this back to bristol condition and then going further to modernize it with every latest bell and whistle, eg. new engine, generator, wiring, watermaker, electric winches, bow thruster, latest electronics, new Burmese teak decks, aging gelcoat stripped, reglassed epoxied, faired and finished, epoxy barrier coat, etc. is not for the faint of heart (or wallet). In all, probably 1-1/2 to 2 times the cost of a new 2018 HuntaBeneLina of the same size to make her into my dream boat. But the satisfaction of having an “as new”, fully restored and modernized classic piece of eye candy that performs respectably and will take you comfortably and safely anywhere on the planet cannot be overstated. Its not for everyone but I wouldn’t have it any other way. Boats are a very personal thing, not a rational, sensible mode of transportation from point A to point B. I liken it to my friend who owns a very special exotic sports car. It makes no financial sense. It costs more than an average house. For a tune up, he must truck it to a distant city and have the engine pulled out just to change the spark plugs at a cost of $4000. But it is his passion, its beautiful and he loves driving it so he justifies it.
Negatives to consider:
1. Forget about getting financing for it.
2. Good luck insuring it for the money you’ve spent buying and restoring it.

[DeValency]

Originally Posted by Briggers

I would be interested to know what you think about the Hunter 430 as a blue water boat?
I have just bought a 1996 version and only moved it from Montenegro to Croatia - just about 90nm, all on the engine as there was no wind.
My first impression is there is just too much stuff on board:
9kva generator
Two AC sets
Two heating units
Very large inverter
Huge refrigerator unit
Two macerators
Two grey tanks.
Seems like over kill to me and it results in very little storage space.

*****
Well, while I personally dislike any Hunter (I agreed to look at a H42 passage few days ago after a broker I tend to trust told me “this is a different breed, with backstays, CC etc”. - after 5 minutes I ran away.... while she was very clean and well kepted the only good things there were the interior volume and Yanmar)
Anyway - the inventory you’ve mentioned is great with any boat you plan to sail on for more than a day. And if you don’t need your holding tank you can always donate it (full &#128512 if you can take it out without cutting off the hull. (And I’m not joking on that...)

Apart from that you are lucky to sail (or plan sailing) in one of the best areas in the world! In New England we have such a short season and much less to enjoy on the two sides of our pond (you have Italy - our other side is Ireland.... &#128561

[DeValency]

It is first of all a matter of budget. You can get a $300-400K fantastic boats from the 90’s and you can get a decent good boat for around $80-120K.

The question is also how much money you want to see sinking down from your floating fund.... say, when you sell the baby in 7-10 years, $200K or $50K??....

Personally, I will enjoy much more sailing on an Oyster, Swan, HR etc.... but then the questions above are somewhat important.

[Juggerknot]

HC41, a spacious heavy cruiser with classic lines and proven sea legs.

[VChild]

Originally Posted by Juggerknot

HC41, a spacious heavy cruiser with classic lines and proven sea legs.

Also a very nice boat. I looked at several before buying. There was a lot in common between the Lord Nelsons and the Hans Christians. Unfortunately the particular ones I looked at had some major issues so I passed on them. But they were high on my list of beautiful, comfortable cruisers.

[DeValency]

The problem is that the industry production in the 90’s was very low due to the poor economy in the early 90’s and that was hitting first the segment of the 40-50’ boats. Most traditional builders went out of business on those years so the present inventory is low on these yers with limited options.

For someone now, buying a 70-80’s boat means that in 10 years on selling, the boat’s value will be close to zero... on most boats. I know there are few very high end exceptions. I know there are Reasonable 40-45’ boats builds from the 80’s offered for 80-150K - they will be lucky to get $30-40K and their buyer should see the paid amount as a total write off as of day one of ownership.

[Juggerknot]

Originally Posted by VChild

Also a very nice boat. I looked at several before buying. There was a lot in common between the Lord Nelsons and the Hans Christians. Unfortunately the particular ones I looked at had some major issues so I passed on them. But they were high on my list of beautiful, comfortable cruisers.

You've a beautiful LN41 there, congrats! I've admired the line for sometime, wonderful boats.
I'm a big fan of the double ender classics, sea kindly, stout and forgiving. Quality is remembered long after price forgotten...

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Briggers

I would be interested to know what you think about the Hunter 430 as a blue water boat?
I have just bought a 1996 version and only moved it from Montenegro to Croatia - just about 90nm, all on the engine as there was no wind.
My first impression is there is just too much stuff on board:
9kva generator
Two AC sets
Two heating units
Very large inverter
Huge refrigerator unit
Two macerators
Two grey tanks.
Seems like over kill to me and it results in very little storage space.

We owned a Hunter 450 which is very much like your boat. It was excellent for cruising around areas like Montenegro, Croatia, the coast of California etc, but would have been terrible in bad weather or winds much over 20 knots. Lots of hull flexing and creaks, groans and banging from the bulkheads, lightly built. Really not set up for any blue water type cruising.

[KayZee]

Originally Posted by Sailor647

Norseman 400. This 40' is a 1987, so a little older than 90's, but an AWESOME cruising bluewater boat. The Norseman 447s are also stout.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...dard%20listing

Hi! First post. I was on this boat at the Cabrillo boat show. My wife and I are still talking about it for how exceptionally well maintained and upgraded it was. The decor is a little 80's teak cave but the layout is flexible and the boat is ready to go.



Kurt

[KeelMe]

Best Blue Water Yacht = Any Hallberg-Rassy.

[VChild]

Originally Posted by Juggerknot

You've a beautiful LN41 there, congrats! I've admired the line for sometime, wonderful boats.
I'm a big fan of the double ender classics, sea kindly, stout and forgiving. Quality is remembered long after price forgotten...

Thanks Juggerknot.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Laurie watson

Wow, note to self, don’t ask you for any help/advice !!

That’s a smart idea because far as I’m concerned people who can’t figure out what boat THEY should get, shouldn’t get one.

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by Laurie watson

Wow, note to self, don’t ask you for any help/advice !!

You can't stop some people from repetitively projecting their insecurities for all to see. Hang in there!

[KeelMe]

Originally Posted by jimp1234

I'm asking because I'm wondering if there are some nice boats from that era I haven't yet considered.

The poor guy is asking for yachts he may not have heard of. He's not asking for us to tell him what yacht to buy.

If he was asking us to tell him what yacht to buy I'd have to insist it be a Hallberg-Rassy.