Bad Market - Good Negotiation Strategies ?

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by Doodles

Yes, you can find out what it sold for. Any broker with a YW account can look it up on Soldboat.com, another arm of YW.

As for "pseudo value" I think everyone these days is expecting a big discount, given and taken, so they are pricing boats accordingly. If I had a boat to sell I'd sure list it at least 20% higher than what I expect to get ... wouldn't you?

Yes that's correct most prices are padded prior to listing, however the thing of real interest to a 'non-euro' member is the boats up there are sometimes "tax free", the market is stressed same as USA and their boats are commonly only seasonally used whereas 'downunder' we use 365 days / year.

So Med boats that we have considered are usually well kept, no tax and cheaper overall.

Cheers

[Doodles]

CMD ... are you saying they should list the boat at exactly what they expect to get? If so, now you are dreaming.

And why would you walk away and not make an offer on a boat that you think is priced too high? It's just a point to start negotiations from.

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by Doodles

Yes, you can find out what it sold for. Any broker with a YW account can look it up on Soldboat.com, another arm of yw

So the scenario is i arrive in Miami and start looking at a 440 available for 510k i see another in the pen nearby with a sold sign on it....

I turn to the broker and ask the obvious... Do you think he will tell me it was sold for 389k????? Do you honestly believe he will surf the net with me using his account showing me how much similar boats sold for?????

Mate i'm the buyer he is the seller it's a poker game an absolute poker game.

Cheers

[newboat]

It is an interesting thing this selling/pricing/buying thing and especially now since 2008 with all its ramifications.
I agree with ICe to an extent, that it is worth it to be reasonable and fair in negotiations. I also see that there are lots of boats that are simply not selling, the owners have an inflated value on them (pre-2008?), and yet they want to sell-or claim they do.
I think the old idea of being "insulted" at a low offer is about the same as a buyer being "insulted" at a high price. It just doesn't make sense, unless of course someone is actually being insulting. Throwing lowball offers to see what sticks when you couldn't really care less is a whole nuther thing - but if you are a buyer and you make an offer, the seller can either say "no thanks" or I won't take 50K on my boat listed for X but I'll take 60K or whatever. There are way too many stories of sellers being "insulted" by a low offer and then much later taking even less when they decided to sell.
As someone said, it is really a matter of what someone will pay as to what the "price" is - if you don't want to sell at that price, well, you don't have to, but it doesn't seem that a boat is "worth X" if no one is making any offers at those numbers.
I must say, I am glad not to be selling in this market and I don't think it is likely to change much soon-if you are a seller, I think the old adage applies-if no one is buying what you are selling then your price is too high!
Some pain is implicit in all that.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

So the scenario is i arrive in Miami and start looking at a 440 available for 510k i see another in the pen nearby with a sold sign on it....

I turn to the broker and ask the obvious... Do you think he will tell me it was sold for 389k????? Do you honestly believe he will surf the net with me using his account showing me how much similar boats sold for?????

Mate i'm the buyer he is the seller it's a poker game an absolute poker game.

Cheers

If you chose to just use the listing (owners) broker to look at boats then sure you will get some resistance. Get yourself a "buyers" broker and work strictly with him. Before you even start looking have him run a report on say all the L440's sold in the last three years in NA, etc. etc. Then you are armed before you go looking at any. And have "your broker" show you the boat not the owner's. The broker fee is split so it doesn't cost the seller or you any more to use your own broker.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Doodles

CMD ... are you saying they should list the boat at exactly what they expect to get? If so, now you are dreaming.

And why would you walk away and not make an offer on a boat that you think is priced too high? It's just a point to start negotiations from.

I am saying over here advertising at 20% over is either stupidity or taking the piss or both.
Over here, if I see comparable $500,000 houses advertised at $600,000 I don't bother even trying as the seller is clearly a fool.

If it was advertised at $530,000 (6%), that's a different story and that's about the usual level of discounting on a sale here..

Thanks for the insight into "How its done" in the US, I know now if I decide to buy to be equally ridiculous and insulting and hit them up for a 50% discount straight up.

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by Doodles

If you chose to just use the listing (owners) broker to look at boats then sure you will get some resistance. Get yourself a "buyers" broker and work strictly with him. Before you even start looking have him run a report on say all the L440's sold in the last three years in NA, etc. etc. Then you are armed before you go looking at any. And have "your broker" show you the boat not the owner's. The broker fee is split so it doesn't cost the seller or you any more to use your own broker.

+1
The broker doesn't give a crap whether the boat sells for 450K or 500K. He is only going to get one fourth of the total commision in the case of a 500K boat with 10% commission that's $50,000 and his share is $12,500. His share of that $50,000 diff is only $1250. A buyers broker will do what it takes to get the boat sold including showing the comps. He wants his money now before you see another boat or talk to another broker. I would.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by cat man do

I am saying over here advertising at 20% over is either stupidity or taking the piss or both.

I'll keep that in mind if I'm ever selling a boat down there.

Originally Posted by cat man do

Thanks for the insight into "How its done" in the US, I know now if I decide to buy to be equally ridiculous and insulting and hit them up for a 50% discount straight up.

No problem, we're not so thin skinned here so its not ridiculous or insulting just part of the process and not something to be taken personally. But I'd stick with 20% ... 50% is a bit much even for us.

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

+1
The broker doesn't give a crap whether the boat sells for 450K or 500K. He is only going to get one fourth of the total commision in the case of a 500K boat with 10% commission that's $50,000 and his share is $12,500. His share of that $50,000 diff is only $1250. A buyers broker will do what it takes to get the boat sold including showing the comps. He wants his money now before you see another boat or talk to another broker. I would.

Ok thanks to you both i was not aware that such a person existed, the hairs on the back of the neck would be ready to raise fearing the insider dealing possibilities.

My marine background was building boats not selling them, i've tended to take the buying process on without advice other than using an agent to check lien's, mortgages and ownership.

I take both your advice on board ......Cheers

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by Doodles

If you chose to just use the listing (owners) broker to look at boats then sure you will get some resistance. Get yourself a "buyers" broker and work strictly with him. Before you even start looking have him run a report on say all the L440's sold in the last three years in NA, etc. etc. Then you are armed before you go looking at any. And have "your broker" show you the boat not the owner's. The broker fee is split so it doesn't cost the seller or you any more to use your own broker.

Thank's Doodle's i was unaware that service was indeed available. Cheers

[Sand crab]

Lagoon4Us, Where are you travelling from, to.

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

......other than using an agent to check lien's, mortgages and ownership.

Frank, have you used agents for this in Aus before ? if so can you recommend one ?.....

Cheers
Johnno...

OP: Apologies i don't mean to hijack your thread....

[jasterling]

Delancey: I have '71 Columbia MKII 34' that I have decided to sell. I am in Knoxville Tn and the boat in Milton (near Pensacola) FL. I am asking only $10,500 which I consider to be very good price for that boat. If that interests you-you can call me at (865) 640-7737 for pics, details ,etc.

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Lagoon4Us, Where are you travelling from, to.

We are from Gladstone on Central Queensland coast we went fort lauderdale and georgetown on our last visit. we will leave for USA and MED to finalise on one of our short listed choices, that is if some other Aussie doesn't beat us to it.

Cheers Frank

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

Frank, have you used agents for this in Aus before ? if so can you recommend one ?.....

Cheers
Johnno...

OP: Apologies i don't mean to hijack your thread....

I've got hold of one in Anapolis (quite handy) who has done some due diligience for me she can remove from USCG register and set onto ours, however nothing is cast in stone PM me the details? Thanks Frank