Bad Market - Good Negotiation Strategies ?

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

We are from Gladstone on Central Queensland coast we went fort lauderdale and georgetown on our last visit. we will leave for USA and MED to finalise on one of our short listed choices, that is if some other Aussie doesn't beat us to it.

Cheers Frank

Damn Aussies buying all ther good boats. You might want to get with a broker at either the Catamaran Company or the Multihull Company or Aeroyacht. I'll bet they'll give you a complete market analysis complete with sale data. I'm sure there are others. Good Luck.

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Damn Aussies buying all ther good boats. You might want to get with a broker at either the Catamaran Company or the Multihull Company or Aeroyacht. I'll bet they'll give you a complete market analysis complete with sale data. I'm sure there are others. Good Luck.

Thanks we appreciate that..Yes we've dealt with Catco and now Sailaway on the West Coast and EYB in the MED. It's all good fun we've met some great people during the negotiations.

Personally i believe the US economy is moving along, we saw and heard fairly positive signs but one of the sad parts of an economy that has had a major correction is the negativety, it pervades all the news and consumes peoples enthusiasm BUT we saw money being spent, tourists doing there thing, we spoke to a few small business people and the mood was moving along. We thought it was fairly positive, but the Americans take there politics way to serious, we just dump ours LMAO

The boat market is crap and will be last to come good simply because they are seen as luxuries. As it improves boats will be likely withdrawn from the market or not put on, when sellers feel some improvements they will rather wait.

We are only looking at Lagoon 440 - 3 cabin Versions and one thing i've noticed (in 7 months) is that the same boats are still available (very few sold) also i've only noticed one addition to that pool, this i find very interesting as it sure helps with our negotations....Look at the one in St Marteen for instance the owner is sticking to his price and it is not selling, it's been listed for ages.....

As the US economy improves the risk market currencies go up. When my wife first started this journey to find a boat suitable to continue our live-aboard life, three years ago the dollar was around 65 cents today it is around $1:07AUD, that's one hell of an incentive to put our hard earned back into such a boat. Almost an investment!

Eventually in 6 years or so when we get back to Australia our adventures could be at no cost!!!!! We will negotiate right up to the last moment it's critical we find the sweet spot where the owner will sell at the minimum cost to us, when we walk away i want our thoughts to be that we got the best deal we could.

The owners thoughts may or not be the same BUT as CMD said "you are not buying friends you are buying a boat". No doubt the seller will find something to blame but it will not be us, our behaviour, grace or manners it will more likely be the ECONOMY!!!!
Cheers
The journey begins

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

The owners thoughts may or not be the same BUT as CMD said "you are not buying friends you are buying a boat". No doubt the seller will find something to blame but it will not be us, our behaviour, grace or manners it will more likely be the ECONOMY!!!!
Cheers
The journey begins

Never have understood the "blame" game. That and $1 will buy you a cup of coffee at the 7/11.

[JRM]

I had an interesting experience looking at a boat this past week. The boat is about two hours or so south of me, three hours if traffic is bad. The boat has been on the market for a while, the owner passed and the estate is selling, and the price has been rather high, but recently dropped to only pretty high.

I have my own broker, who helped me out with our last purchase, and has become a friend over the last few years. I try not to waste his time, so I generally do a first run look solo with the listing brokerage. I do all my own legwork and research, but due to an experience I had selling a home several years ago, I will never engage in a transaction where a single broker or realtor represents both the buyer and the seller (there's a whole other thread right there). Thus, I have my own representation.

I'd been eyeing this boat for months, but the price was well out of my range, and even though I do enjoy looking at boats, I don't enjoy wasting people's time. With the price drop, I thought I'd go have a look. So the listing broker did a "courtesy showing" for me last week. I liked the boat a lot, and wanted my wife to take a look. I asked if I could bring her by over the weekend since we were going to be down in the area. So he tells me that my broker will have to come down "because we only do one courtesy showing."

So I called my guy, and set it up. Luckily, he was available. The admiral really liked the boat, and after much discussion on the merits we've decided to put in an offer. It's a fair offer, and not a "lowball" as defined earlier. I'm serious about buying it if they're truly serious about selling it...

I just find it odd that in this economy, in this boat market, that the listing broker is unwilling to host a second showing to the final arbiter of purchase, the wife, for a serious non-tire-kicking potential buyer. It concerns me for the impending negotiation sessions.

JRM

-- I keep hearing that it's such a buyer's market. Apparently not many of the sellers have gotten the memo...

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by JRM

I had an interesting experience looking at a boat this past week. The boat is about two hours or so south of me, three hours if traffic is bad. The boat has been on the market for a while, the owner passed and the estate is selling, and the price has been rather high, but recently dropped to only pretty high.

I have my own broker, who helped me out with our last purchase, and has become a friend over the last few years. I try not to waste his time, so I generally do a first run look solo with the listing brokerage. I do all my own legwork and research, but due to an experience I had selling a home several years ago, I will never engage in a transaction where a single broker or realtor represents both the buyer and the seller (there's a whole other thread right there). Thus, I have my own representation.

I'd been eyeing this boat for months, but the price was well out of my range, and even though I do enjoy looking at boats, I don't enjoy wasting people's time. With the price drop, I thought I'd go have a look. So the listing broker did a "courtesy showing" for me last week. I liked the boat a lot, and wanted my wife to take a look. I asked if I could bring her by over the weekend since we were going to be down in the area. So he tells me that my broker will have to come down "because we only do one courtesy showing."

So I called my guy, and set it up. Luckily, he was available. The admiral really liked the boat, and after much discussion on the merits we've decided to put in an offer. It's a fair offer, and not a "lowball" as defined earlier. I'm serious about buying it if they're truly serious about selling it...

I just find it odd that in this economy, in this boat market, that the listing broker is unwilling to host a second showing to the final arbiter of purchase, the wife, for a serious non-tire-kicking potential buyer. It concerns me for the impending negotiation sessions.

JRM

-- I keep hearing that it's such a buyer's market. Apparently not many of the sellers have gotten the memo...

I sorta understand the sellers broker.

As it turns out by doing it his way you cut out a trip by getting your broker in on the second viewing.

You are absolutely reputable but others may drag vistor after visitor down. My wife, my buddy, my uncle etc. With the recent price drop there may also be recent activity making the broker a little less accomodating.

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by JRM

I had an interesting experience looking at a boat this past week. The boat is about two hours or so south of me, three hours if traffic is bad. The boat has been on the market for a while, the owner passed and the estate is selling, and the price has been rather high, but recently dropped to only pretty high.

I have my own broker, who helped me out with our last purchase, and has become a friend over the last few years. I try not to waste his time, so I generally do a first run look solo with the listing brokerage. I do all my own legwork and research, but due to an experience I had selling a home several years ago, I will never engage in a transaction where a single broker or realtor represents both the buyer and the seller (there's a whole other thread right there). Thus, I have my own representation.

I'd been eyeing this boat for months, but the price was well out of my range, and even though I do enjoy looking at boats, I don't enjoy wasting people's time. With the price drop, I thought I'd go have a look. So the listing broker did a "courtesy showing" for me last week. I liked the boat a lot, and wanted my wife to take a look. I asked if I could bring her by over the weekend since we were going to be down in the area. So he tells me that my broker will have to come down "because we only do one courtesy showing."

So I called my guy, and set it up. Luckily, he was available. The admiral really liked the boat, and after much discussion on the merits we've decided to put in an offer. It's a fair offer, and not a "lowball" as defined earlier. I'm serious about buying it if they're truly serious about selling it...

I just find it odd that in this economy, in this boat market, that the listing broker is unwilling to host a second showing to the final arbiter of purchase, the wife, for a serious non-tire-kicking potential buyer. It concerns me for the impending negotiation sessions.

JRM

-- I keep hearing that it's such a buyer's market. Apparently not many of the sellers have gotten the memo...

Wouldn't he or Brokers like him have problems in the housing market?? We have finally sold our house to finance our boat the differences here are.
1) We live in our house so "viewings" are intrusive.
2) We were on the market fo four months.
3) We have had 9 open houses with 2 to 5 couples looking.

We put effort in as did our real estate agent to secure a sale, what is so difficult for a yacht broker to give a second showing to the person most intrinsic (the admiral) to the sale??

Lazy stuff...... Cheers

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

I sorta understand the sellers broker.

As it turns out by doing it his way you cut out a trip by getting your broker in on the second viewing.

You are absolutely reputable but others may drag vistor after visitor down. My wife, my buddy, my uncle etc. With the recent price drop there may also be recent activity making the broker a little less accomodating.

I would agree. After the courtesy showing it was time for your broker to start earning his commission.

[JRM]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

I sorta understand the sellers broker.

As it turns out by doing it his way you cut out a trip by getting your broker in on the second viewing.

You are absolutely reputable but others may drag vistor after visitor down. My wife, my buddy, my uncle etc. With the recent price drop there may also be recent activity making the broker a little less accomodating.

That was one of the funnier parts of the first showing. It was obvious the broker hadn't been on the boat in quite a while. The son has been taking it out once a month or so, but he's supposed to keep it up. When we opened the hatch the entire interior was thrashed. Cushions everywhere, dirt everywhere, trash on the sole. He was trying to hide his displeasure, but he was expecting to show me a boat in really nice condition and was shocked at what greeted us. The son had left a port open during the last rain, and it had leaked down bringing a bunch of LA smog with it (and not even cleaned the streaks off). It hadn't rained for a couple of weeks, so I know he hadn't been on the boat since at least then. I don't think he's got any other interest even after the price drop (which has been a while now).

He actually suggested I pay to have a cleaning lady come and spend a day on the boat so it wouldn't be a wreck when my wife saw it and she'd like it more. I declined, and he specifically said that he would at least put the aft cabin cushions back in place (instead of across the salon floor) so that it would look OK for my wife. When we arrived with our broker, the place hadn't been touched. Luckily I'm blessed with a wife who can see past the surface and isn't hung up on minutia like curtain colors.

And yet he kept dropping hints like, "The owner just wants it gone." Since you mention it and I've played it back in my head, he did say something about my broker bringing down paperwork with him so that if my wife liked the boat we could put in an offer. I probably shot myself in the foot but I told him about our 24 hour rule, where we allow at least 24 hours from decision to implementation on any major purchase. This rule has made us very unpopular with used car salesmen (the two times we've bought cars from a dealer).

JRM

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by JRM

That was one of the funnier parts of the first showing. It was obvious the broker hadn't been on the boat in quite a while. The son has been taking it out once a month or so, but he's supposed to keep it up. When we opened the hatch the entire interior was thrashed. Cushions everywhere, dirt everywhere, trash on the sole. He was trying to hide his displeasure, but he was expecting to show me a boat in really nice condition and was shocked at what greeted us. The son had left a port open during the last rain, and it had leaked down bringing a bunch of LA smog with it (and not even cleaned the streaks off). It hadn't rained for a couple of weeks, so I know he hadn't been on the boat since at least then. I don't think he's got any other interest even after the price drop (which has been a while now).

He actually suggested I pay to have a cleaning lady come and spend a day on the boat so it wouldn't be a wreck when my wife saw it and she'd like it more. I declined, and he specifically said that he would at least put the aft cabin cushions back in place (instead of across the salon floor) so that it would look OK for my wife. When we arrived with our broker, the place hadn't been touched. Luckily I'm blessed with a wife who can see past the surface and isn't hung up on minutia like curtain colors.

And yet he kept dropping hints like, "The owner just wants it gone." Since you mention it and I've played it back in my head, he did say something about my broker bringing down paperwork with him so that if my wife liked the boat we could put in an offer. I probably shot myself in the foot but I told him about our 24 hour rule, where we allow at least 24 hours from decision to implementation on any major purchase. This rule has made us very unpopular with used car salesmen (the two times we've bought cars from a dealer).

JRM

Sounds like a great kid...

Never mind. His, "owner wants it gone" offset your 24 hour rule.

In selling anything, cosmetics is mandatory. I bet the broker was pissed off. Dirty interior could knock 5 grand of "kerb value" off some boats.

You could be on the brink of a fantastic deal. No shame in that.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by avb3

"Firm" etc. means nothing, as it doesn't write any checks that can be taken to a bank. Some seller think that it gives them an air of authority; some buyers like me think, "Their desperate".

For me "Firm" (unless I already know that the price is a tempter) means Owner likely too much of a PITA to deal with (same as a way high asking price) - and I am not paid by the hour to educate him, so won't even bother getting in contact. He can get his education from the market for "free" (lol!) .

That's on anything, boats included.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

Wouldn't he or Brokers like him have problems in the housing market?? We have finally sold our house to finance our boat the differences here are.
1) We live in our house so "viewings" are intrusive.
2) We were on the market fo four months.
3) We have had 9 open houses with 2 to 5 couples looking.

We put effort in as did our real estate agent to secure a sale, what is so difficult for a yacht broker to give a second showing to the person most intrinsic (the admiral) to the sale??

Lazy stuff...... Cheers

I think you hit the nail on the head - "lazy stuff" is the basic problem with many Owners and Brokers.....both on showing and also presenting all the information a buyer would want before being asked (having dragged out of? ).....the irony is that it creates more work for them overall.

Seems like many Owners / Brokers like wasting own time .

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by JRM

He actually suggested I pay to have a cleaning lady come and spend a day on the boat so it wouldn't be a wreck when my wife saw it and she'd like it more. I declined, and he specifically said that he would at least put the aft cabin cushions back in place (instead of across the salon floor) so that it would look OK for my wife. When we arrived with our broker, the place hadn't been touched.

LOL! Sounds like this Broker genuinely thinks he is doing you some sort of favour .....and that he doing a bit of tidying up on own initiative is beneath him (5 minutes to put the cushions back? - could even have done that with you onboard. I would have asked you to give me a hand )....if I was a broker I would attend every viewing with a rubbish bag, a squeegee and an airfreshner - and budget an extra 10 minutes before the potential punter (and my potential beer money ) arrives.

The funny (?) thing is that often boats (or whatever) get bought in spite of the sales man / pitch not because of it - even if the Seller thinks otherwise.

[justwaiting]

The focus of the thread has been on responding to for sale adverts...

Given that the best deals are generaly to be found where there is a "motivated" or "distressed" seller finding those from amongst the " i really dont want to sell my boat" sellers.

What is opinion on advertising "boat wanted" is this a way of achiveing that or is it just an invertation for being bombarded with oportunist sellers? What wording do you belive would assist, for example: "please list your best price as i do not negoiate price. I will either buy the boat at the price or move on to another boat"

Ladies and gentlemen opinion please

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by justwaiting

The focus of the thread has been on responding to for sale adverts...

Given that the best deals are generaly to be found where there is a "motivated" or "distressed" seller finding those from amongst the " i really dont want to sell my boat" sellers.

What is opinion on advertising "boat wanted" is this a way of achiveing that or is it just an invertation for being bombarded with oportunist sellers? What wording do you belive would assist, for example: "please list your best price as i do not negoiate price. I will either buy the boat at the price or move on to another boat"

Ladies and gentlemen opinion please

OK - Opinion...

You advertise you are looking for a boat and you put enough effort to specify the qualities, type, use, price range, etc.

You get bombarded with many private sellers with the wrong boat.

All they read is, "I have money. Come get me." and your email address.

Maybe I'm harsh but that's my opinion. Worth exactly $0.02 internet credits...

[avb3]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

For me "Firm" (unless I already know that the price is a tempter) means Owner likely too much of a PITA to deal with (same as a way high asking price) - and I am not paid by the hour to educate him, so won't even bother getting in contact. He can get his education from the market for "free" (lol!) .

That's on anything, boats included.

Agree, there certainly is the PITA aspect to some of those "sellers", but reality is, they have the boat, the buyer has money.

Which do they want more?