Amel, Oyster, Discovery...Our lengthy search continues

[Indecenseas]

Originally Posted by Lee Jerry

You don't say where you are in the US, but there are quite a few boats available in the Caribbean. You hinted at the West Coast, so maybe that doesn't help much, but still closer than Europe.

As for the boat, you seem to have a pretty good handle on the "good ones" (Oyster, HR, etc.) But a few comments, mostly not previously mentioned:
Hylas 54 would suit well. Not sure why someone poo-pooed the newer ones, but I don't think they would fit your budget anyway, even the 48 which looks pretty nice.
Tayana, older but 52, 55 and 58 (maybe others) all semi-custom.
Passport
Little Harbor, also older but nice and well built
Baltic
Deerfoot
Southerly
Perry
Swan
Lyman-Morse
Morris
Najad (even more Euro based, so unlikely to find here)

I'll certainly spend some time looking into each of these a bit more and see if anything stands out. I have seen a couple really appealing Swans and Hylas and Passports but usually for one reason or another hard to pull the trigger.

We are on the West Coast. Santa Cruz, near Monterey.

[Hobiehobie]

We looked at many of the same boat brands when searching. Ended up with a Hylas 54, with absolutely zero remorse, loved her then, still think she is the perfect boat for us. A Hylas 56 would also be similar, although a bit more expensive. If we were buying a new craft I would seriously consider a Kraken or Rustler, but would be $1m plus.

[Muaddib1116]

The Hylas 54 and 56 are beautiful, wonderfully built and designed boats. It's the newest stuff from Hylas that I'm leery of, from a design perspective.

One thing to note about all those high end European boats, they all have teak decks, and in your price/age bracket that's something to be careful about. It could be well worth the price increase to find a boat that had new teak decks installed recently. Or at least to take a very careful look at the decks and factor deck remediation into your offer.

The high-end asian boats (Hylas, Outbound, Tayana, Taswell, Passport) all eschew teak decks. I'm not sure Outbound will work for you, they only have one 50+ model that might come in to your price range, and they didn't make many of them.

As far as Hinckleys, they are beautiful, but surprisingly low volume for their length. Interior layouts will be pretty old fashioned and cramped, relative to your other options. If you're in the market for a classic style boat like that, Little Harbors are much better for livability, and just as well, if not better made and finished.

If you're up for a more complete refit, you could look at some older 70's-80's boats that have the design pedigree and build quality. I would recommend the larger Bristols and Gulfstars. You may run into insurance issues with an older boat though. But maybe a full refit with insurance survey can solve that. I'm not sure what the implications for financing are. There's a Gulfstar 60 in San Diego that could be pretty amazing after an intensive refit.

The rest of the boats that Lee Jerry listed are all worth looking into. Aside from Swan, they're all a bit more rare though. Personally, I've never been that into Swans, the quality and hull design are there, but the deck/cockpit layout is always very ocean race oriented, and they never look that livable to me.

[shimari]

There's a 2006 Perry 59' for auction in Annapolis on the 27th. The reserve is $300k. She looks in pretty good shape from the listing, and they've already had a survey done.

https://boathouseauctions.com/auctio...-59-perry-2006

The boat was for sale for $550k for a while I think.

Not sure if it fits your timing or interests.

FYI - I have no interest with David Walters Yachts nor the owner of Free Range Chicken. I just received an email about the auction.

[Takitimu]

We were in the same mindset as you when we stared our boat buying late last year. We ended up buying an Oyster 485. We really like the Amel, however seeing how everything on it was electric and watching Delos playing a constant whak-a-mole with issues we selected the Oyster which had the right balance of old school tried and true and creature comforts. I can tell you however avoid ANYTHING over 49 foot. If you don't have experience or a budget to hire a captain your in for a very rude awakening insurance wise. If your able to find it, its more than a mortgage payment. We couldn't be happier living on her. Since taking ownership in December we have completed a refit ourselves that involved removing the old navionics, 250Lbs of seatalk wire, installing a new raymarine system, replaced all the pumps, toilets, installed nema engine monitors, and now we are into replacing the AGM's for Lifepo4. Its a lot of work but we are glad we did it and now have the ability to repair ourselves.

[Indecenseas]

Originally Posted by Hobiehobie

We looked at many of the same boat brands when searching. Ended up with a Hylas 54, with absolutely zero remorse, loved her then, still think she is the perfect boat for us. A Hylas 56 would also be similar, although a bit more expensive. If we were buying a new craft I would seriously consider a Kraken or Rustler, but would be $1m plus.

Yes Kraken are great from what I can tell and what I hear but they are still newer-ish and working to establish themselves with long term reliability and support, at least as best I can tell so far. I do like their yachts a lot but I'm not sure that they are my cup of tea, perhaps in the future.

I think if we end up spending $1m+ it will most likely be on an oyster 575 or late model 56 that we refit. Or perhaps the Amel 55. I do also think Hylas has made its way onto our radar for sure but I need to see one in person and try and get on one.

As i'm looking into so many of these good suggestions from folks, many good options come up that are in existence but not necessarily easy to find or for sale.

[Indecenseas]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

The Hylas 54 and 56 are beautiful, wonderfully built and designed boats. It's the newest stuff from Hylas that I'm leery of, from a design perspective.

One thing to note about all those high end European boats, they all have teak decks, and in your price/age bracket that's something to be careful about. It could be well worth the price increase to find a boat that had new teak decks installed recently. Or at least to take a very careful look at the decks and factor deck remediation into your offer.

The high-end asian boats (Hylas, Outbound, Tayana, Taswell, Passport) all eschew teak decks. I'm not sure Outbound will work for you, they only have one 50+ model that might come in to your price range, and they didn't make many of them.

As far as Hinckleys, they are beautiful, but surprisingly low volume for their length. Interior layouts will be pretty old fashioned and cramped, relative to your other options. If you're in the market for a classic style boat like that, Little Harbors are much better for livability, and just as well, if not better made and finished.

If you're up for a more complete refit, you could look at some older 70's-80's boats that have the design pedigree and build quality. I would recommend the larger Bristols and Gulfstars. You may run into insurance issues with an older boat though. But maybe a full refit with insurance survey can solve that. I'm not sure what the implications for financing are. There's a Gulfstar 60 in San Diego that could be pretty amazing after an intensive refit.

The rest of the boats that Lee Jerry listed are all worth looking into. Aside from Swan, they're all a bit more rare though. Personally, I've never been that into Swans, the quality and hull design are there, but the deck/cockpit layout is always very ocean race oriented, and they never look that livable to me.

I too am very leery of newer designs. Especially anything within the last say 5-8 years it seems, at least in general. I think the teak decks in the late 2000s and early to mid 2010s on the euro models we are looking at are glue down or even faux teak.

I agree with you on the swans, wonderful boats but a smidge more "racey" than I think we are looking for. Great boats though! Once in a while I see a really intriguing one but end up realizing I'd still prefer something more "cruisy"

admittedly I know almost nothing about Bristols and Gulfstars. I've never even set foot on one. I'll look into those as well! Thanks!

[Indecenseas]

Originally Posted by shimari

There's a 2006 Perry 59' for auction in Annapolis on the 27th. The reserve is $300k. She looks in pretty good shape from the listing, and they've already had a survey done.

https://boathouseauctions.com/auctio...-59-perry-2006

The boat was for sale for $550k for a while I think.

Not sure if it fits your timing or interests.

FYI - I have no interest with David Walters Yachts nor the owner of Free Range Chicken. I just received an email about the auction.

You know, that is a really cool looking boat and I'm sure it would fit our budget and needs. Although, I'm pretty keen on Center cockpit given we are attempting to start a family. I'm also really not sure how to think about in boom furling but at the moment I have a strong reservation about that.

[Indecenseas]

Originally Posted by Takitimu

We were in the same mindset as you when we stared our boat buying late last year. We ended up buying an Oyster 485. We really like the Amel, however seeing how everything on it was electric and watching Delos playing a constant whak-a-mole with issues we selected the Oyster which had the right balance of old school tried and true and creature comforts. I can tell you however avoid ANYTHING over 49 foot. If you don't have experience or a budget to hire a captain your in for a very rude awakening insurance wise. If your able to find it, its more than a mortgage payment. We couldn't be happier living on her. Since taking ownership in December we have completed a refit ourselves that involved removing the old navionics, 250Lbs of seatalk wire, installing a new raymarine system, replaced all the pumps, toilets, installed nema engine monitors, and now we are into replacing the AGM's for Lifepo4. Its a lot of work but we are glad we did it and now have the ability to repair ourselves.

Oh man yes! Congrats on the 485, I love those!!!! There was one just near us actually that we very nearly pulled the trigger on but it was quite over-priced and I got the feeling that perhaps the owners didn't really understand how much work it truly needed. Sometimes I run into Oyster owners that have sailed the world and worked on their own boat and other times some owners are totally out of touch and it makes buying super difficult because they can hire an even more out of touch broker. Explaining that one wants to buy their overpriced boat at a fair price and refit it for cruising and major crossings is met with, "well its ready right now!"...usually I'm sitting there scratching my head like, man it looks ready for book club at the dock and some wine, but I'm not going to outrun a storm with this and everything looks like it wants to break! haha! Perhaps thats with everything now a-days though.

I certainly cringe with the idea of electrics used in heavily exposed areas yet I don't have much option.... I happen to be really allergic to hydraulic fluid now, ever since my time in the Navy, for some reason it became a really serious allergy. So, I have to lean into boats that either have electric or that are able to be fitted by someone else with electrics...but thats another problem for another time and I'm going into each boat with the understanding that I'll have to overcome that hurdle when the time comes.

As for insurance, yes thats another hurdle we are well aware of and not looking forward to haha. We are both somewhat experienced yet its been a while since myself or my fiancee have sailed on a regular basis. So we are going to brush up on small and cruising style sailboats and get a bit of formal training too. We are working on our captains license in the US first. I hear the RYA Yacht Mater Offshore can help with insurance in Euro and Med.

This video is lengthy but I found it really entertaining and they discuss their 485s and RYA license, etc...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PjZ4ZaKBOM&t=2105s

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Takitimu

We were in the same mindset as you when we stared our boat buying late last year. We ended up buying an Oyster 485. We really like the Amel, however seeing how everything on it was electric and watching Delos playing a constant whak-a-mole with issues we selected the Oyster which had the right balance of old school tried and true and creature comforts. I can tell you however avoid ANYTHING over 49 foot. If you don't have experience or a budget to hire a captain your in for a very rude awakening insurance wise.. . .

The Oyster 485 is a beautiful boat. I had a contract to buy one before I ended up with my present Moody.

I do have to disagree, however, about the insurance issue. I just paid my insurance with Pantaenius for the year yesterday. With a cruising area extending to 100 miles above the Arctic circle comprehending Iceland and part of Greeland, and down South as far as Morocco, East to the Russian border, with declared value over half a million UK pounds, etc. etc., I'm paying well under 2000 GBP per annum which is well under 3k American. That's for a 54' boat.

Insurance not an issue at all.


I love my boat, and the way it's going now will probably be buried viking style in her when I die, but IF I could change to another one, it would be a bit larger, maybe around 65'.

[Bowdrie]

You don't have to spend a fortune to get a nice center-cockpit boat that'll cover most of the bases.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/197...ketch-7910728/

[Indecenseas]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

You don't have to spend a fortune to get a nice center-cockpit boat that'll cover most of the bases.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/197...ketch-7910728/

Ooh, I quite like that. Although, I sort of feel like it has a bit of a slow look and feel to it, almost "motorsailey-ish". However I'm no naval architect so I could be way off.

Nice vessel for sure! Thanks for sharing! I'll be reading up on it and seeing if the urge to buy a plane ticket and go take a look arises.

[Indecenseas]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The Oyster 485 is a beautiful boat. I had a contract to buy one before I ended up with my present Moody.

I do have to disagree, however, about the insurance issue. I just paid my insurance with Pantaenius for the year yesterday. With a cruising area extending to 100 miles above the Arctic circle comprehending Iceland and part of Greeland, and down South as far as Morocco, East to the Russian border, with declared value over half a million UK pounds, etc. etc., I'm paying well under 2000 GBP per annum which is well under 3k American. That's for a 54' boat.

Insurance not an issue at all.


I love my boat, and the way it's going now will probably be buried viking style in her when I die, but IF I could change to another one, it would be a bit larger, maybe around 65'.

Yes from what I've seen having lived on both sides of the states and been part of the offshore fishing and sailing communities on both sides...it can drastically change depending on experience, the vessel itself, the company and what they specialize in, the quality of the broker and on and on.

I'm inclined to agree with you, and although it's unavoidably a huge issue for some, with adequate preparation, as with anything, it can be much more affordable and a non-issue. Most I've heard who had to deal with outrageous insurance only had to deal with this for a very short window of time.

[Shrew]

What is your timeline?

What is your boat ownership and operational experience?

Most insurance companies are going to shy away from a 50ft as a first boat. Any lending institutions will require comprehensive insurance.

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by Indecenseas

Ooh, I quite like that. Although, I sort of feel like it has a bit of a slow look and feel to it, almost "motorsailey-ish". However I'm no naval architect so I could be way off.

Nice vessel for sure! Thanks for sharing! I'll be reading up on it and seeing if the urge to buy a plane ticket and go take a look arises.

Anything older than 40 years can be quite the pain in the ass when it comes to insurance these days. No idea why those old boats were often made better.

If you own and insure a boat for a number of years and it turns 40 while you own her it is less of a problem. Buying and trying to insure for the first time a boat 40+ years old is problematic.

If you don't have solid resume of experience with large boats insurance is going to be a problem. Put the two together and insurance could be your biggest nightmare.

Insurance tends to be a business that swings from loose to super restrictive and we are on the more restrictive end right now. Eventually companies will get more greedy than scared and it will swing the other way before they rack up crazy losses and tighten things down again.