Adding ballast or something like it?

[scottorious]

It's news to me that there were two different versions. I have only ever seen a 5' draft across the board for cal 34's. I've never looked much further than sailboatdata.com though. I'd be interested in seeing the info that you found. All of my thoughts were/are in line with what Uncivilized posted. But that was when I thought both boats were the same draft.

Most likely I wont be adding a large amount of ballast. I think I'd be better off by building an integral water tank into the keel and finding a way to securely mount some sealed AGMs down there. All of this effort is probably not worth it for a 50 year old boat but I love the size and how it sails and most importantly.... It's paid for. I'm a big fan of James Baldwin at atomvoyages and I think a paid for Cal 34 would be a good candidate for some of his modifications. I've only ever sailed it on the Bay of Green bay and I would not say it's overly tender but it sure does heel over when the breeze picks up.

[TrentePieds]

Sailboats are sposed to heel. Enjoy it while it lasts :-)!

Actually, my info comes from a C34 OWNERS MANUAL that someone kindly posted 'ere quite some time ago.

Another friend on this forum sez: "Wooden boats are on life support from the moment they are launched. Fibreglass boats you have to ASSASSINATE!" I love that - it's so true.

That a 'frozen snot" boat is half a century old should not deter an owner from spending a few bux on 'er. But the money should, of course, be spent on useful things. Messing with the basic design parameters is not one of them :-). But extra water tankage is certainly useful in a cruising bot, and has nothing to do with ballast or stability or sea-kindliness in the usual sense. Though you could argue, I'm sure, that being able to stay at sea for another week is a form of sea-kindliness :-). 25 gallons weighs about 220 lbs plus the weight of the tank.

As for healing, bring her on a beam reach in 12 knots of wind and trim her so she's tromping along happily and has just a touch of weather helm. Look at your clinometer. I doubt that she'll be heeling much more than 7º. If she is, take some pressure off her by easing sheets until that magic little bubble sez 7º. You won't be losing any speed by doing that, but you will make the ship's company unnecessarily uncomfortable if you don't.

Your last comment, "it sure does heel over when the breeze picks up", suggests that you are holding your sail too long, or sheeting in too hard. This boat relies on her headsl for the drive, which is why, I'm sure, it paid to shorten the boom over time. Experiment with this. If you have hank on headsls, experiment to find the one that gives you 7º of heel in 12 knots of wind on flat water. If you have roller furling, furl till you get that degree of heel. Then you can trim the helm by playing with the mainsheet so you have just that magic touch of weather helm. Play with these things until on flat water in 12 knots of wind you get a boat speed of 6 knots. The theoretical maximum (hull) speed for your boat is about 7.25 knots, but 6.5 is really all you can expect or should strive for. Less if it's choppy to any extent.

Cheers

TrentePieds

[UNCIVILIZED]

C34 = Cal 34 or Catalina 34? And at 7deg. of heel, there's little enough need to ease the sheets in flat water. At double that you're playing the traveler like a banjo in puffs, but...

[TrentePieds]

Oops! Yes you are right, Uncivilized, the OP has a CAL34. My bad. And yes, I can't find a record of a CAL34 shoal draft version.

That admitted, I believe what I've said is sound enuff, for the principal parameters of the two boats are very much alike indeed. That said, I think I'd rather have a Cal 34, than a Catalina 34:-)

The 7ºs is, of course, only a datum upon which you can establish by experimenting with what you have, what gives you the sweetest sail. We can all drive the rail down, and some of us do it just to play silly-buggers. If the inexperienced do it, it's often as a result of not having done enuff experimentation to find the particular combination of area and trim that makes the particular boat happy.

As you say, at 15º the forces become substantial, and I dare say that if a puff lays you over that far, you luff up a tad. Don't you :-)? If what's laying you over turns out to be more than a puff, I dare say you begin to think about taking some sail off. Don't you :-)?

Quite often we have someone ask "when should you reef?" and always we answer "don't leave it too late!" "Too late" obviously varies from boat to boat, I think that 7º is a good place to begin to think about it since in flat water at 12 knots you are approaching hull speed anyway. For 20% of the effort (wear on the gear) you get 80% of the effect (boat speed). 80% of 7.25 knots is 5.8 knots. Now, TrentePieds is 25LWL so THS is 6.7 knots and 80% of that is 5.36. That's usually good enuff for me. I'm a cruiser not a racer :-)

Best

TrentePieds

[Dave22q]

Have you tried contacting the builder or designer? My experience is that folks are happy to answer reasonably questions such as why did you add the weight? Do you think my adding weight is a good idea and if so how would you suggest doing it? If you cannot track down anybody from the original build try asking owners groups to help you find somebody.
Absent some expert advice I would not add this modest amount of ballast just because the design changed. The change could be associated with other changes you did not notice.

[UNCIVILIZED]

TrentePieds, unless talking about a racing boat built in the last 15yrs or so, boats don't typically reach, or get close to their speed potential until they're heeled over close to 15 deg. And you can heel over a lot of boats to 7 deg. just by parking 1/2 dozen guys on the rail at the dock.

The thing is too, that the lower the angle of heel, the less effective the keel will be, so that at 7 deg. it's only using a tiny bit of it's range to aid in keeping the boat upright vs. the forces generated by the sails. And if you reef at 7 deg. of heel, you're throttling back a long, long time before the boat is making any real degree of power. Which, if all the keel is being tasked to do is to keep you at a 7 deg angle of heel, then you're carrying around a lot of excess lead. As the keel's not really doing any work at such low angles. Nor are the sails or rigging for that matter.

If you dig up some Polars, you'll note that it's pretty common for a boat to develop good speed at about 15 deg. of heel. Ditto VMG. And at lesser angles, insufficient power is being produced to drive the boat well (make good speed). And at greater angles you'll be making more leeway, & thus poor VMG. Generally speaking.

Then, if you look at boats of a generation or two ago. Such as from the early 80's & earlier, they tend to sail best at heel angles of about 30 degrees. Which, yes, that's uncomfortable for non-sailors quite often. But that's how they perform best. Such is an unarguable fact.