40',50', 60' ?

[dina3894]

My husband and I are looking to buy a blue water cruiser. We have a lot of experience in racing and off shore racing. I cannot imagine double handing one of these race boats even at 30'. But the brokers we are speaking to assure that the Oyster 575 and Gunfleet 58 or Southerly 535 can easily be done with two people. They are automatic with electric winches and furling sails but are these things enough to make double handing realistic for a retiring couple?

[dougweibel]

I won't comment on the suitability of those particular boats but there are certainly couples who cruise (without additional crew) on boats in that size range. The physical demands are normally fine due to the power winches, furling, etc. However a 60' cruising boat will handle very differently than a 30' race boat so you would have to get comfortable with the dynamics of the boat in close quarters. You also need to be confident that if something breaks, a furler for example, that you can find a suitable way to deal with it that may be very different from how you would handle it on a smaller boat due to the much larger loads.

My best advice would be to find a way to get some time on a boat that size. Even if you charter a boat which would be far from what you would consider a blue water cruiser being aboard a boat that size will give you a much better idea of if you can be comfortable. You can expand your comfort zone but you can also put yourself on a boat where you mistrust your ability to manage it and regret going so big.

If you do decide to go that direction then consider if the specific boats you are looking at are set up well for just a couple, which really means to what extent can you singlehanded the boat. I always think about what it will be like to be up alone standing watch at night when it is raining, etc. What situations would cause me to wake my wife? Getting enough sleep is important when there are just two of you.

[JPA Cate]

Hello, dina,

We moved from a 30 footer to a 36, and lived 18 yrs. on it. Now, we have a 46. As they get longer, they get heavier and less responsive, less lively. Don't expect the new boat to turn on a dime and give you a nickel change.

Brokers will tell you anything to get the job done of selling you a boat, the bigger the better, so caveat emptor. We've had the experience of being shown a boat about twice what we told the broker we'd pay, and it was full of leaks! [NB Going to look at boats on rainy days can be revealing!]

The boat we are presently undergoing quarantine on (our only shared home, so far) is a 46' Solent rigged sloop, a one-off, made from strip plank western red cedar, epoxy, and glass, by a shipwright for his family. We are the boat's second owners. She is pretty easily driven, and is quite stable (stability being a virtue of bigger boats), but lively at anchor. She has a skeg hung rudder, and so is not as nimble as a spade rudder boat would be at docking and slow, close maneuvering. However, the rudder is protected, one of our criteria for a "bluewater boat."

Imo, you and your good husband need to consider the characteristics you think are necessary for a cruising boat, and make a list. Look at the very smallest boats that will serve your needs. Running costs will be far less, and your footprint will be smaller.

If you have the heart for it, look at (instead of name brands) boats built by boatwrights for their own use. Often, they are stunning. Unique. And sound designs are chosen. It's not for the faint of heart, though, and people who've never owned a one off will tell you they'll be hard to sell. But I (of course biased) do think that the knowledgeable purchaser will see the value of a well made boat, built specifically for cruising. Our boat wasn't even formally on the market when we agreed to buy it. So, the grapevine can be a good way to find one, too.

Ann

[slug]

Originally Posted by dina3894

My husband and I are looking to buy a blue water cruiser. We have a lot of experience in racing and off shore racing. I cannot imagine double handing one of these race boats even at 30'. But the brokers we are speaking to assure that the Oyster 575 and Gunfleet 58 or Southerly 535 can easily be done with two people. They are automatic with electric winches and furling sails but are these things enough to make double handing realistic for a retiring couple?

It’s not a problem all those boats you mentioned can be operated with only one seaman on watch

But ... how much money do you have ?

Automated mechanical systems that replace manpower are maintenance intensive and expensive

In general the bigger boat will be the best


Larger fuel and water tanks , more storage , more personal space and most importantly ...faster, more miles per day

It’s up to you

[skipmac]

I have owned sailboats from 34' to 63'. Current boat is 42'. When I boat the latest (probably last) boat I knew I would sail it shorthanded, occasionally singlehanded. Yes a larger boat you can handle the anchor, sails and all the other big loads with bigger winches, power winches, etc but two concerns.

As someone mentioned what is your backup plan if one of the power winches fails or you lose power altogether.

The other is how big a sail can you move around by yourself? Occasionally you will want or need to take the main off the mast. Most of the time you can wait to get someone to help out. But if you're anchored somewhere without access to help and a storm is on the way and you need to strip all the sails off to reduce windage. Can you move the mainsail around by yourself? At 70 that limit for me is a boat about the size of the one I have.

[Tillsbury]

I would have said the same as you, but I went from 30 to 40 to 50 each time with trepidation but found that they were if anything easier to sail not harder. I haven’t tried 60 (other than racing boats) but don’t doubt that a well equipped one should be fine. My requirement is that I can drop sails alone in significant wind should systems like furlers fail. I can do it on my current boat but don’t know how much harder it would be on a 60, which is a whole lot more boat and sail.

Cruising boats don’t need anything like the crew of a racing boat. There is usually only one person doing the actual sailing at any one time.

[Sojourner]

Just my opinion (tho it is shared by every owner I've met), our Amel Supermaramu at 53ft is the perfect boat for cruising couples, as it was designed to be exactly that. Everything is electric, but with manual backups. Everything is controlled from a deep, dry center cockpit, never a need to go out if you don't want to. Most owners, myself included, have redundant everythings. Storage space is VAST. The boat is highly seaworthy, 5 waterproof bulkheads/compartments from bow to stern, including the forecabin itself. Roomy engine room outside under the cockpit sole contains everything (engine, watermaker, boiler, big generator, air con units, etc) to minimize noise and odor. Flexible ketch sailplan keeping loads less on each sail than an equal sized sloop. We delivered her across the med in February in sweatpants and hoodies, that's how dry she is. Can't say enough good things about a Supermaramu....

[Zanshin]

I've always been a single-hander, and my current boat is a Jeanneau 57 which I've sailed around 6 months out of every year. What allows me to work this boat in comfort is all the electric winches, but the most important part for me is the in-mast furling as that lets me very easily adjust the amount of sail.
I recently sailed from Annapolis to the Caribbean and had I not fallen and hurt my back it would have been a dream trip of 8 days (from Norfolk); I used weather routing since it was difficult to find a weather window between the winter storms in January.

The accident highlighted one of the dangers of sailing alone, though. Luckily I was not completely incapacitated and luckily none of the electrics failed.

[stormalong]

Some good replies have been posted.

I know this is going to sound harsh.

If you have to ask the question you do not have enough experience to purchase, maintain and operate a cruising sailboat.

You need more experience. Volunteer to do an ocean passage on someone else's boat before you make a big purchase mistake. If you are very wealthy and intend to pay others to maintain your boat you will be disappointed in the results - especially if you don't understand what you are hiring people to do. If you intend do do your own maintenance go to a boatyard and volunteer to help someone prepare their boat for the season.

There is a huge difference between a 40 ft and 60 ft boat. It is not 50% larger it is 400% larger,

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Dina.
I'd (mostly) agree with the previous affirmative opinion, given that you now cruise much more conservatively, than you once raced.

[Eleuthera 2014]

A friend has an Oyster 575 and sails it 2 up in the Med. No problem whatever.

With your background, don't sweat the small. stuff. Add loads of fenders, use the bow thruster and get in and out of spots you never thought possible.

Beware of Oysters: they require constant monitoring of the more than 2 dozens through hull... my mate has a plasticized check list of which to close when done for the day.

Beautiful boat. You could also look at Amels... great passage boats and well thought out and built.

[mikeo16]

I also think you need to evaluate the size of boat relative to your desired cruising area. For example, in New England the harbors are small and very crowded thus very limited space for boats over 50 feet. It also can be very challenging handling a boat in tight quarters to get diesel and water at many small docks. If your cruising grounds are Florida, the draft of larger boats can limit where you can go. If you like to anchor out, you will likely be one of the furthest boats out because of available space - this means maybe longer and wetter dinghy rides to shore

[jmh2002]

Some things actually become easier with a larger boat, assuming it is setup correctly for short handed sailing in the first place.

[dina3894]

Wow,
I would like to thank everyone their input! Some really great points. Some people referred to fenders and sails. I guess that was my husbands real worry. That lines, fenders, sails do get exponentially bigger and on the occasion we need to handle sails it could be challenging. We are in the manufacturing business have lots of electrical, tool and die, plumbing and fiber glassing experience. My husband has skippered many larger boats upto a Santa Cruz 70. We have owned Farr 40 and a Swan 39 but again strictly for racing. We are excited to start a cruising life. I enjoy this forum thanks again.

Dina

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by dina3894

Wow,
I would like to thank everyone their input! Some really great points. Some people referred to fenders and sails. I guess that was my husbands real worry. That lines, fenders, sails do get exponentially bigger and on the occasion we need to handle sails it could be challenging. We are in the manufacturing business have lots of electrical, tool and die, plumbing and fiber glassing experience. My husband has skippered many larger boats upto a Santa Cruz 70. We have owned Farr 40 and a Swan 39 but again strictly for racing. We are excited to start a cruising life. I enjoy this forum thanks again.

Dina

Wow,
Your first post sounded like you were a complete newbe and now you tell us that you have owned two boats and you husband has skippered larger boats. So you should have some ideas on sizing boats. Even if you have not cruised you have some idea of how much effort is required to set, reef, dock, etc. The experience you lack is sailing 24/7 short handed. On a very large boat you should probably have two crew awake at all times so two of you cruising a 60 footer is an issue. The one thing that you must know is that one of you must be awake at all times when under way. It is important to be watching for hazards and watching the weather for unexpected changes. The on watch can wake the off watch to help with sail changes or other situations that may arise. It takes a few days to get into the cruising groove - where you can settle down to a schedule that is comfortable.

Just two people cruising is definitely more effort than having a third. I cruised a lot of years with just two aboard but I like three best. Why? Because with three you can have a three on, six hours off schedule and get better rest/sleep.

Another thing about short handed cruising is that you are more dependent on technology. Autopilots and windvane steering become critical. I have two autopilots that are hot switchable to make sure that I always have a working one. Radar helps you keep a better watch. These days AIS is a big help to know what is around you and optionally to let others know that you are there. Electric winches are cool labor saving devices, I don't like the concept of being caught without them so I don't want a boat the depends on them for safe operation. All electronics break down eventually so you need to have backups and/or the ability to make do without. Many places you visit will not have the people that can fix electronics - especially today when many thing have to go back to the manufacturer for repair. Another reason for backups. I have a lot of spare parts for that reason. I have seen many cruisers in exotic places waiting for parts. With infrequent air schedules they can be long waits.

Yacht repair skill availability is spotty at best. It is important for you to have some mechanical skill for minor repairs. Discussion boards are full of people that have been ripped off and have had bad repairs. You need to know what you are asking for and know that you are getting it. Anyone can hang out a shingle and say that they service boats but many are charlatans or just incompetent.

When you are mid ocean depending on your boat that yacht repair guy is in the pub tossing down a few. He is no where near as committed to everything working right as you are.