3Di by North.

[GRIT]

I would like to hear from users of North's 3Di sails. Any flavour of 3Di sails, preferably on a multi hull, would be appreciated,.

I'm concerned with longevity, as North's own information, found in another thread, suggests I can only expect 3 years life from 3Di sails.

Thanks for your first hand information.

Paul.

[Eleuthera 2014]

Hi GRIT,

I have a new set of 3 Di Nordam for 1 season. I would have never bought them if the loft in Opua NZ had not suggested a much longer life span.

I have to admit to a very impressive increase of speed and after 1 season of cruising , about 3000NM, they still have no wrinkles.

It’s up to you.

[SV-Viento]

We had 3di Endurance on our last mono. We bought solely on the concept of durability and longevity. They looked amazing after 3 years of coastal weekend cruising. The jib on a furler looked new. Performance was exceptional. Now IMO the downside was a bit of ware showing on the main primarily from flacking on the boom. Had we rolled the sail and had the sail constructed with full battens this would have been a non issue. Regardless possibly best sails we have had.

[GRIT]

Thanks for your replies.

It seems like you're both happy with the sails, so far. In regards to the advertised lifespan, shown in another thread, perhaps that was written when the product was still fairly new. I don't know, but the North Salesmen all seem to tout the longevity of the material. I have yet to confront any of them with the info shown on the other thread.

Perhaps I should look closer at that info, and see if it's not "fake news", or "old news".

Thank you both.
Paul.

[SV-Viento]

Originally Posted by GRIT

Thanks for your replies.

It seems like you're both happy with the sails, so far. In regards to the advertised lifespan, shown in another thread, perhaps that was written when the product was still fairly new. I don't know, but the North Salesmen all seem to tout the longevity of the material. I have yet to confront any of them with the info shown on the other thread.

Perhaps I should look closer at that info, and see if it's not "fake news", or "old news".

Thank you both.
Paul.

Hey Paul,

A couple more thoughts. To confirm what I think you are already discovering, 3di come in many varieties. Some of the more performance oriented versions
Such as the “RAW” are lighter weight with different material and I have personally seen relatively new Raw sails on the sail loft floor more or less destroyed. So I think it’s important to match the correct product for intended use. Also important, I have no first hand use or exposure to the 3di Nordac product line.

Last thought for now We are in process of finding a new boat and sails for what will be a long term costal cruiser (38ft mono) our thoughts for sails are leaning towards a 3di endurance 105% headsail that I’m convinced will be near bulletproof for many years and a full batten Dacron radial or cross cut main. Again, well made full batten mains tend to have long life and hold shape reasonably well. Based on our last 3di main I’m not certain it was worth the extra $ as it showed some “handling”ware after 3 years use and I don’t want to baby our sails anymore than we already do.

[GRIT]

Thank you SV Viento. I've often considered going with a dacron Sail, but the consensus seems to be that larger cats, with larger mains, do better with "non dacron" sails.

Though I don't know how true this is, I'd be happier not having to think about it.

I'm considering the Endurance, and the Ocean, line of 3Di sails. Both seem to be recommended for Cats.

Good luck with your search, and purchase.

Paul.

[Eleuthera 2014]

From the manager of the NS loft in Opua NZ: “NS has been building these sails for more than 20 years. We’ve got the process down pat now”

[GRIT]

3Di for 20 years?
How long have you been making endurance and offshore sails? And what is the expected life of these sails?

Thanks for chiming in.
Paul.

[J Clark H356]

I just got my new 3DI Nordac 330 16,800 sails and got them on in October26 but only sailed once in very light air due to schedule conflicts after I received the sails. I bought them with the expectation of durability and I am sure they will go the distance for me. Our area north Kentucky Lake, had a gale all Friday night and Saturday until around 3:30 PM when the front and squall line fully passed through the area. The area to the west was clear, and my weather forecast products showed nothing on the other side. As I had been waiting for these sails all season, I was anxious to get them on the boat and sail on Sunday.

On the install, I got the jib up the furling mast in still air while in my slip and got hit with a freak, unanticipated windstorm out off nowhere like the back side of a hurricane eye and the sail got out of control as I didn’t have the jib sheets on when hit with sustained winds for hours at 25 knots knots plus. The headsail was flogged badly from about 5 PM until 7 AM the next morning when the wind finally died. At midnight it was still 18 knots and 3 AM 12 knots. The sail backwinded around the mast early making it impossible to roll up, so I just watched as a $3900 sail was flogged and beat to death. It had extreme damage but did not come apart but was cracked in a number of locations. North agreed the life was severely compromised and my insurance company considered it a total loss, so after paying a large deductible, I have just received the replacement and it is sitting here awaiting spring when I will take the original storm damaged one down and put on this new one. When I described the stress that this sail went through for over 12 hours flogging and cracking like a whip, they were amazed it didn’t shred it. Sometime during the storm, the wind got to 47.7 knots yet It’s still in one piece. North said that all the guys at Milford agreed that a normal sail would have been in shreds given what this one went through. This is one tough sail, so although my only experience with the North CDI, I am sure it will outlast my expectations. The photos are representative of the damage so hopefully this will help you make your decision.

Note the calm water as we are starting to raise the sail. The cloud came over the lake in 5 minutes and was nowhere in sight when we started the install.

[GRIT]

Wow, what a story! I'm glad it all worked out ok. That's a heck of a test!

Thanks for your response, it was the most interesting one yet!

Cheers.
Paul.

[GRIT]

As an update to this thread, and hopefully to encourage more replies, I'll share what we bought.

After much consideration, we decided we'd buy a set of "beginner" sails, in dacron. I don't know what I expected, in regards to sailing a fast cat over a monohull, but I was a little intimidated by what people were saying about how it's a different ballgame. It turns out, it's just like sailing a monohull, with some small differences. But, sailing is sailing... go figure.

So the hype was just a scare tactic. The boat sails very well, and the sails trim just like they do on a monohull. Sure, they're larger than what we're used to, but so's the boat.

After 9000 miles in the last 20 months, the jib is in very good condition, but the main will be going in for inspection. There are scallops in the main that are difficult to get out, and the head was not cut properly for the top car. The top car projects out 3 inches from the others, but the head does not accommodate for this. I think this is what's causing the scallops in between the battens. Tightening the halyard doesn't quite make things as I'd like to see.

Anyway, the main seems to have a bit of a belly, which is what I'm going to have the sailmaker check out. 9000 miles isn't much for a dacron sail, though we don't baby the sail at all, I'd expect much more use out of it. I realize fast cats do put more stress on the sails, depending on how you sail; and I think a more robust sail is warranted.

If it's stretched already, we'll go for the 3di sails as replacements. If it's just the headboard that needs adjusting, we'll keep them for a while longer.

We're not leaving, for world cruising, again until 2026, so if the dacron's still good, we'll likely only replace the sails the year before.

Any more reports on 3di sails for cruising?

Cheers.
Paul.

[Loredo]

I only got my 3Di in "700 Ocean" main and 130% jib last year.
For health problems in the family, haven't got to use them a lot YET.

For this reason, sorry, I can't answer your main question about longevity.
The 3Di technology is relatively new, I think none really has an answer.

(Previously North did the 3DL)



What I can tell you for sure is that they're the absolutely best sails I've

ever had or seen!

Let me just tell you this little tale. When first playing with the new sails,
main alone in varying 8-12K true, the boat was doing 4.5-5.2K!
YIKES! No kidding, I thought the plotter was nuts but also the log confirmed the numbers. Never seen a fully loaded cruising mono-hull tacking through the wind on the main alone seemingly never slowing down (much).


I have in mast furling and asked North to build me a main with full height

vertical battens. This gave me roughly 11 square meters more than without battens.



What surprises me most is how easy it is to trim the main. Easy is actually

an understatement. Little halyard tension, just trim the sheet, voilà.


Like mentioned before, you need to keep in mind that the 3Di sails can be had in a wide material variety. "Raw" is for racing only, the Ocean 700 I got is for offshore cruising.



Coming from other laminated sails I had in the past, one thing I know is that Dacron is a thing of the past. For example, confirmed by the belly you mention. You can expect a good laminated sail to never get a belly. No stretch, no belly. The laminated sails I had on the previous boat still were
in top shape after 10 years.



I think one needs to see on it's own to believe how superior this 3Di thinghy is when it comes to sail shape.


I just question myself why I didn't get them sooner...



I hope this help a bit.

[SV-Viento]

Originally Posted by GRIT

As an update to this thread, and hopefully to encourage more replies, I'll share what we bought.

After much consideration, we decided we'd buy a set of "beginner" sails, in dacron. I don't know what I expected, in regards to sailing a fast cat over a monohull, but I was a little intimidated by what people were saying about how it's a different ballgame. It turns out, it's just like sailing a monohull, with some small differences. But, sailing is sailing... go figure.

So the hype was just a scare tactic. The boat sails very well, and the sails trim just like they do on a monohull. Sure, they're larger than what we're used to, but so's the boat.

After 9000 miles in the last 20 months, the jib is in very good condition, but the main will be going in for inspection. There are scallops in the main that are difficult to get out, and the head was not cut properly for the top car. The top car projects out 3 inches from the others, but the head does not accommodate for this. I think this is what's causing the scallops in between the battens. Tightening the halyard doesn't quite make things as I'd like to see.

Anyway, the main seems to have a bit of a belly, which is what I'm going to have the sailmaker check out. 9000 miles isn't much for a dacron sail, though we don't baby the sail at all, I'd expect much more use out of it. I realize fast cats do put more stress on the sails, depending on how you sail; and I think a more robust sail is warranted.

If it's stretched already, we'll go for the 3di sails as replacements. If it's just the headboard that needs adjusting, we'll keep them for a while longer.

We're not leaving, for world cruising, again until 2026, so if the dacron's still good, we'll likely only replace the sails the year before.

Any more reports on 3di sails for cruising?

Cheers.
Paul.

Great assessment and follow up - this is what makes CF a useful resource. Let us know how the recut of the main works out. I do think you are identifying the difference between dacron and the various other sail constructions (eg 3Di). Dacron will last forever it's often a question of how long it will hold its shape.

Anyway keep looking forward to 2026 it's a worthy goal.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by GRIT

…
Any more reports on 3di sails for cruising?
...

Not 3DI, but we got membrane string sails from another sail maker a year and 8,000 miles ago. We had them built with heavy polyester taffetas on both sides. The new sails are no lighter than the HydraNet sails they replaced, although the sails are each about 10% larger than their predecessors (we replaced our main and jib). We also added a membrane staysail and use that rather than furling-reefing our jib.

The string sails have perfect as-designed sail shape throughout their wind ranges. There is no need to add luff or foot tension when the wind picks up (in fact our jib luff tension is quite loose and main luff is just tight). Sheet settings can be marked and repeated. Gust response is to accelerate the boat rather than to stretch and increase drag. We can point 5* higher with slightly more boat speed, but that’s mostly due to the poor shape and non-specific design of the previous set of sails. The mainsail reef points can be properly reinforced with appropriate fibre paths, unlike the off-axis panels of a woven material. Jib reefs can also be designed in, though that wasn’t applicable to our jib.

The HydraNet sails were 10 years and 60,000 miles old. The material was still rock solid but the stitching and webbing were past their working lives. The jib had a hooked leech and needed lots of halyard tension to keep the draft forward. The main was majorly scalloped between the full battens and needed lots of outhaul and halyard tension to keep draft reasonable.

A caution about the heat-set glues used by some membrane and laminate manufacturers - they don’t stand up well to tropical temperatures and humidities. That’s something to check out if you’re planning to cruise to warm places.

[GRIT]

Loredo. Thanks for your report. Yes, that helps. I'm happy to hear you find them the best sails you've had, after also having other laminated sails. I've never owned a laminated sail, so have no point of comparison. Thank you.

SV-VIENTO. Thanks for your comments. I've lamented reading threads that just sort of end, without conclusion. I try to show the conclusion when I can. As you said, I think it helps others. It certainly helps me.

FxyKty. Thanks for your report as well. It sounds like your old sails were in the same condition as my 2 year old Dacron sails. Would you mind telling me which brand you've chosen, and perhaps a guestimate on how much more expensive than Dacron you found them to be? The 3DI sails I priced a few years ago were about 3.5 times more expensive than the Dacron I purchased: $9000 for the Main in Dacron, and $33000 for the 3DI. The Hydranet pricing was about $17000, or double the price of our Dacron sails. The jib ran about half the price of the main for all three materials, and is almost exactly half the size of the mainsail.

Thanks to all.

Cheers.
Paul.