2 +/- degree list

[kylecallahan]

Folks -
I was on a Catalina 380 this past weekend that had a slight list down towards the port bow. She was lightly loaded, but with water and diesel tanks near full. The pitch is persistent. Several months back, the mast was apparently off for replacing of the step and some electronics - not sure if the list was there at that time and before although I assume not from chatting with the skipper. Wondering, of all who may read this thread , if any have experienced this interesting characteristic and if there was any resolution upon their discovery. Its not my vessel, but I will be crewing on her transpac this summer, so...interested.

[Orion Jim]

Compensate with lead pigs starboard aft. Surprised that this would be apparent on a large volume production boat, these issues are normally addressed early on.

[kylecallahan]

Thanks! You've given me a good idea - maybe the diesel storage in the aft stbd locker for the crossing. Appreciate the feedback Jim

[Jim Cate]

How are you measuring this listing? That's a pretty small deviation... could it be that the inclinometer is misaligned by a couple of degrees?

Jim

[kylecallahan]

Thanks Jim! I'm an Architect in my day job and am used to feeling the pitch of old floors. It failed the rolling can test. so, I broke out my trusty do all device (yep, phone), fired up pitch guage and it agreed with my assumptions. Not a big pitch but surely there. So, looking into the "interior layout" I find tanks and the inverter all left of center (port) and think that an unbalanced load may be the culprit. That said, I was also looking at the new mast and step with a wary eye.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by kylecallahan

Thanks Jim! I'm an Architect in my day job and am used to feeling the pitch of old floors. It failed the rolling can test. so, I broke out my trusty do all device (yep, phone), fired up pitch guage and it agreed with my assumptions. Not a big pitch but surely there. So, looking into the "interior layout" I find tanks and the inverter all left of center (port) and think that an unbalanced load may be the culprit. That said, I was also looking at the new mast and step with a wary eye.

I suspect that quantity of fuel/water in tanks, anchor and chain size and location could easily make a 2° or more change through movement of centre of buoyancy on a boat like than. To say nothing of crew positions

[Tillsbury]

Yes, on a light boat just see what happens when you load up the stern lockers with a load of cruising gear. It’ll probably sit nicely when loaded up.

[GILow]

I though list was only to port or starboard? Aren't we talking about trim here?

Anyway, 2 degrees does not sound like a lot. I've seen that sort of change when repacking a boat. Certainly if I take the anchor chain completely out I get that sort of movement.

[El Pinguino]

2 degrees trim by the head is quite a bit......
My boat... 39 foot.... 8 tonne nominal displacement ... can be trimmed by the head with an extra anchor and chain up the front.... lists to port when 'empty' due to batteries being to port.... stow 200 litres of dieso in bidones in the 'garden shed' on stbd side and you can get a noticeable stb list...

Doesn't take much to affect trim and list.... centre of buoyancy stays the same... its the C of G that is moving around....

[GILow]

Of course, all this assumes the cabin sole is sitting properly.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

.... centre of buoyancy stays the same... its the C of G that is moving around....

I "misspoke"


It is indeed primarily the CoG that is moved.


(However if the boat lists and/or the trim changes as a result of the movement, the CoB must also change )

[kylecallahan]

Folks -
All excellent commentary - we will load the more substantial gear aft to stbd to shift CG back towards where it should be. Stu - best idea yet - get the fat guy to starbd aft as well
Thanks, all!

[billknny]

Rule ONE for loading any sailboat is to keep the heavy things as close to the center of gravity as possible. As low as possible, and near the centerline. For some things, this is not always possible (e.g., anchor chain), but ADDING weight to the bow or stern JUST to trim is a bad idea. It increases the rotational momentum, and that is not good in a seaway. In an ideal world, bow and stern lockers would be only used for fenders, life jackets and other such bulky and light items.

Some boats were designed to carry 100 meters of chain in the bow locker, and have the hull volume forward to support it. Most were not.

If there is ANYTHING heavy stored forward that CAN be moved aft, do so. If the boat unloaded has a decided list to one side, that is strange.

Finally, on most production boats, it is not a good assumption that the cabin sole will be perfectly level and flat when the hull is in proper trim. Getting that perfectly correct is a manufacturing challenge that is not always undertaken by builders making boats to a price point.

[TrentePieds]

Why would you be worried about a 2º list in a 19K lb cruising boat? "Pounds to immerse 1 inch" would calculate out to eight or nine hundred lbs, so once your gear is stowed, she won't float on her DWL anyway.

Just compensate for list and trim by choosing where you stow/mount your gear. For cruising purposes it won't matter that she doesn't float on her DWL. No laden cruising boat does.

If you want to win races, it's a kettle of fish of a different colour.

If it'll give you peace of mind, just misalign the clinometer. Once you are under way in a decent wind you'll be walking on the furniture anyway, and no amount of having walked on ancient floors will be of any use to you ;-)

And as someone else said, the heeling of a boat is called "list" when she is lying dead in the water (or if she's a motor vessel), "heel" if it is induced by the wind in the sails. A boat can be "down by the head" or "down by the stern". She is then "out of trim", and she can be "trimmed" by placing weights in some appropriate place.

TrentePieds

[Montanan]

Need to shift a tun of wine, oil or honey or a barrel of beer or ale to regain proper trim and / or list. If they are located on the listing or trimmed direction, suggest you just drink up to lighten the load at that placement instead of moving the load to a different position.