2 broken shroud wires

[eriksp]

Here’s another anecdotal data point.

Last year, a friend’s boat developed two broken strands on an upper shroud. I recommended replacement, but she had not gotten around to it.

She invited me out for a sail in 10-15kt of wind. We tacked, and the shroud snapped (yes, all 17 of the remaining strands in the 1x19 wire).

The mast fell down about 20 seconds later. So yeah, that’s in the realm of possibility.

You know when you’ve left a rubber band in a drawer for a while, and when you finally decide to use it, it’s either become gummy, or it’s brittle and cracks? A shroud with broken wires is like that - it’s an end of life indicator.

[Tin Tin]

Originally Posted by Flotilla

Is the boat coming into contact with the adjacent boat a viable insurance claim?

My comment was more about if the rig falls over after you discover the issue and then go sailing, your claim for the loss of the rig, any injured people etc may be denied especially if the disclosure documents about age of rig and condition etc are incorrect. Read the fine print about your responsibilities.



However there would be grounds for a claim if your boat banged another, but "viability" depends on age of your rig as noted above by Trent, what your deductible is (likely to be more than cost of just a single new stay), what other damage if any, any damage to the other boat etc etc etc.

[CalebF]

I wouldn't hoist a sail until the rigging is redone, and that probably should be all standing rigging. I just observed an otherwise beautiful Capri 25 recently grounded sand up to the rudder post on the beach of Cat Island MS due to an apparent rig failure. Jib on deck, main hastily dropped, two anchors out/drug across the bar, and a splayed stay at the turnbuckle. Looked to me a potential case where the poor stay condition may have been hidden in the swage or maybe earlier parting of a couple of strands had been ignored resulting in a full failure and abandon ship scenario for fear of the rig comingcompletely down on the crew. It broke my heart to piece together what must have happened. It just isn't worth it to risk either injury/death or loss of a boat over ignoring obvious signs of potential rig failure.

[Nautes]

Why take a chance? I would have the entire mast assembly carefully examined. All of the shroud wires should probably be replaced before taking it out.

[S/V Illusion]

Sounds more like the OP is looking for someone to confirm his intent to try getting away with a defective stay he knows is damaged and defective.

It’s astonishing how many people risk other peoples’ lives just to save a few dollars.

[Cheechako]

With a short piece of wire, or even steel rod, and a few cable clamps you can double over the broken area temporarily to move the boat.
I agree with others that the wire is probably old, degraded and brittle though.

That price is way high. If you can dismount and measure your wires, you can order new rigging on line a lot cheaper. Or with help go up the mast and measure each wire taking into account how much adjustment you have at the turnbuckles.

Or you can buy a spool of wire and get end fittings you can do yourself. I imagine you can get enough wire for the whole boat for the $500 quoted. I haven't checked wire prices in the current price gouging environment.

[CarinaPDX]

Your rigging, not just that single shroud, is at end of life. Two broken strands is proof, and from here on out you are on a very skinny limb and starting to saw behind yourself. Insurance companies usually insist on a full survey, including a rigging survey, before selling insurance. And many require replacement beyond a certain age. When I was in Europe I tried to get insurance and was told to either re-rig the boat, or provide a rigging survey every year until I did. I got the survey, and the following year a broken strand in the backstay sealed the deal. Since I had rigged the boat originally, and I was located near one of the premier riggers in the world, it was no problem to buy a coil of wire and replacement cones for my Sta-Lok terminals.

Replacing the rigging is not that difficult. I made up my initial rigging in an afternoon, having already worked out the lengths required. Replacing is just a matter of putting a Sta-Lok on one end of the wire, uncoiling it alongside the old wire, then cut to length and attach the second terminal. Before unstepping the mast do check to see if any changes to wire length are indicated by the turnbuckle adjustments, and apply before cutting the wire. Simple, and not very expensive. In some cases it is possible to remove and replace one wire at a time with the mast up.

Of course you can hire a professional but as you have discovered they do not come cheap. You will literally save thousands of dollars by DIYing it. And with cone fittings like StaLok it is really cheap for the next re-rigging. With the pros you will likely end up with swages, which means you will pay full freight for new ones in any future re-rig. To DIY you just need to know how to cut wire with a hacksaw, and be able to read instructions and assemble the fittings with a pair of wrenches. And squirt some sealant inside before final assembly. It really is that simple...

Greg

Edit: To be clear, do not even think of hoisting a sail on that boat until this is fixed. It is potentially dangerous, the liability is significant, and if you have hull insurance it may not pay off. Oh, and get the h out of that marina. If your mast can hit the next boat over this is not where you ever want to be. Be more protective of your lady.

[clakiep]

Just take a piece of stay and bridge the place where the strands are broken with theese clamps you tighten with screws. Three on each side, above and under, of where the strands are broken. I had this condition on three stays and sailed for 6 month until I got to a place where the exchange was easy.

Capt. Claus - ocean tramp of the eighties

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by Flotilla

Hi Everyone,

Have a 1976 Hunter with two wires broken on the starboard mast shroud rigging.

Just purchased and before I could even take it out - it was damaged by coming into contact with the adjacent slightly larger sailboat's mast. Terrible marina with limited break wall plus very high winds.

I realize that I need to replace, but want to take it out in light winds to get a better idea whether this is the right vessel or not. Since there are 19 wires typically in the strand, the engineer in me thinks that it is still well within light wind safety limits. Even considering that the other wires may be compromised. I was told that at the end of the wire it is connected with rope to the mast. Difficult to imagine that 17 stainless wires are the weak point...

Would appreciate some kind opinions as I am new to sailing.

Thank you in advance!

Any idea how old the standing rigging is? Might be time to replace the whole set so you don't spend your time worrying about which one will go next. You can do it yourself, one wire at a time using mechanical fittings like Sta-Lok or hays Hi-Mod.

[GBR134]

I am an ex-rigger but of racing dinghy masts, not yacht masts. Our rule of thumb was that if one strand is broken then the shroud or stay will fail sooner rather than later. Consequently, I would never recommend sailing it as is under any conditions unless you have no other choice.

More controversially, in my experience standing rigging does not need replacing on account of age. In a number of lengthy conversations with a Metallurgical Engineer who had built a business supplying stainless steel rigging in various guises to the Offshore Industry. He was very sceptical of the Yachties view that S/S standing rigging work hardens over time and becomes more prone to failure. In his view and mine, regular inspection of all standing rigging should show signs of deterioration well before it fails. Having attended to literally hundreds of dinghy dismasting incidents over 30 years only once did I encounter one that appeared to have simply failed in normal use without any indication of previous damage or in response to an exceptional force. ( I do hope I'm right as my standing rigging dates from 1982 as far as I know! Mast is still upright as of 12/06/2023 - I'll update if it falls down.)

[Siberian Sea]

On your Hunter a properly turned cap shroud should be tightened to 12-14% of its breaking strength. In my opinion if nothing else has been compromised you should be ok for a short light wind easy sail. However, it the very thought that other things might be compromised due to age, past abuse or from the incident that broke this one shroud. If it were me I would change the broken one and inspect everything else before I went sailing but to prevent a bad day.
You don’t really need a rigger to change these shrouds, you can easily do this yourself with some knowledge you can easily gain from a few good books or online. A company called Rig-Rite sells everything you need. You could use Swageless fittings like Sta Loc that when properly installed are outstanding, it’s what I used on my boat and never an issue. Get a Loos rigging tension gage so you can tune your rigging and know what’s going on.
When I first bought a sailboat I had a rigger come and replace all my shrouds, it was the prudent thing for me to do as it was past time, however as the years past I slowly learned that rigging is not magic and every bit of it I can easily do myself and so can you. As your here online you obviously have a computer and internet, You Tube is an excellent place to start. Like every good guitarist known how to tune his guitar every good sailor should understand why, how to maintain and tune their rigging and I feel soon your going to be doing this too. Enjoy your new boat and welcome to the fleet.

[Cynara]

Is the question should you replace the stay that has broken wires? The answer is yes

[Shaneesprit]

Have a look at a few videos of boats whose mast has hit a bridge - a properly rugged mast will almost turn the boat over rather than break.

You’re probably right if it’s light winds and there is still tension in the wire it’s probably ok. But if your test goes wrong it’s going to be expensive.

To be honest it just needs fixing and it’s going to be your expense either for the work or for the loss of value to the boat.

The better way to assess if it’s the right boat is by borrowing/ Hire of the boat before you buy.

[HuR]

I think you should replace the standing rigging. However that is not what I chose to do with my 1989 Pacific Seacraft 34, which has original rigging. After sailing across most of the Pacific I discovered broken wires in several shrouds and the backstay (wire is 1X19 and 1/4 inch). I backed the rigging up with spare sheets, halyards, etc., and sailed another month around Fiji, sometimes in strong conditions. Rig stayed up.

The failures were all at the joint of the wire and the bottom swage, presumably because salt accumulates there and eventually it corrodes enough. I discovered the problem by picking at each wire on each shroud using a tiny flat screwdriver (in Beveridge Reef of all places). Examination of the rest of the rigging, wires, top swages, tangs, chainplates, etc. by me and a rigger in Fiji indicated they are all fine, so my solution was to purchase 8 "longstud" StaLoks and cut the bottom swages off each shroud and stay (one at a time with backup still in place), and these StaLoks precisely replace the bottom swage in length. But I have yet to test this out as I will only get back to the boat in August. An Aussie I met along the way suggested this solution and had used it on his much older boat and rigging (from the 1970s!), and it held from South Africa all the way through the Atlantic and Pacific and back to Australia. You can see this solution near the end of the last of a set of videos about my trip here - https://www.youtube.com/@SVSeaChange/videos. If you go this route, first watch several of the many videos on YouTube about how to fit these StaLoks, there are a few details not made clear by the instructions from the manufacturer in England.