We were attacked by Orcas!!!

[Aethelwulffe]

So, an Orca, one of a group (you can tell by the shape of fin as well as the shape of the white spot and lack of a "saddle") that is transient and often does take large prey, and often does so by disabling their prey's fins, decided to take a taste of your rudder.


Seems reasonable behavior.
Either as an attack due to your boat being a decent artificial lure for whale-sized prey for young inexperienced Orca, or the subject of an attack for pissing off a grumpy oldster by motoring around in what should have been a perfectly peaceful sailboat. A third option is that it is half mad and starved due to loss of prey in the area, and is just making *sure* your boat isn't tasty. Fourth option is that this female shown here (identified by very curved dorsal) has something personal against boats due to a personal history. I totally believe that could be a front-runner. Orcas are *certainly* known to hold and act on grudges, or at least in captivity they have abundantly shown the capacity for it.



Nature abhors a vacuum, but leaf-blowers will be the first ones against the wall when the revolution comes!

[PirateFoxy]

Originally Posted by seamaiden

Actually, the man who first created German Shepherds did so with continuous in-breeding, which resulted in the genetic weaknesses still prevalent among German Shepherds today. Only briefly, at the inception of their breed, were they used as herd dogs for domestic cattle and sheep. This was because of an aggressiveness which was one of the results of the inbreeding. They have been used for many tasks which suit their strong temperament: search and rescue, police work, tracking, cadaver recovery and for a long time in the military.

People CURRENTLY herd with them and breed them FOR herding.

And you do not WANT an “aggressive” dog for police work, etc. That tends to interfere with control. You want one with a strong drive but not naturally given to immediately solving all problems with teeth. An aggressive dog will want to continue going after the target even once it has been called off - that’s a good way to wash out of a training program.

[Manateeman]

Dogs and sheep. Please try to sort of get back on track.

[PirateFoxy]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

Dogs and sheep. Please try to sort of get back on track.

On the topic of Orcas it seems to me if you respond to them messing with you a little by seriously escalating things with a weapon or similar, you’re likely to just make them unhappy, and reality is you and your boat are probably going to lose big to a pod of cranky Orcas. So unless you can be sure you really would immediately drive them all off or kill them all, which seems unlikely, ‘playing dead’ as it were to be boring seems far more sensible to me.

[Manateeman]

Pirate foxy. Sincere thanks. I was beginning to think no one was listening.
The manatee confer an honorary : Doctorate in Marine Mammal Behavior Summa Cum-Laude.
Your thesis “ Common Sense Observation and Interaction with Orcas”
has been sent to The Society for publication.
Your concise and powerful analysis is noteworthy beacon in the darkness of a thread adrift in a sea of anecdotal chaos.
Congratulations and kindest regards.
Happiest of trails to you.
Captain Mark and his grateful manatees

[ahun]

More, recent report, found on FB:

Orca Attack - 20 NM West of Porto

Delivering a Lagoon 450 from Les Sables to Gibraltar we were attacked by a pod of Orcas at 1900 on 4 October 2020. Difficult to say how many orcas but there were at least 6.

It started with the owners wife saying there were some big dolphins alongside and nothing could have prepared me for the next two hours. Jet black and brilliant white with a massive dorsal fin they are apex predators and members of the dolphin family.

I have only seen an orca in Vancouver aquarium from the safety of a seat in the gallery. Our visitors arrived at dusk and constantly charged the boat menacingly turning upside down for the next push at the boat. The bang when they hit was unsettling and when pushing/ biting the rudder the steering wheel violently spun round.

Advice issued by Spanish Coastguard is to switch off the engine which we did. On the basis that this is a new behaviour and nobody really knows how badly they can disable a yacht or even cause damage where the boat floods I contacted Falmouth Coastguard to alert them by satellite phone and get the number for Spanish Coastguard. We were pretty much alone 20 miles offshore off Porto Portugal. Once I made contact with Portuguese Coastguard they had all our details and could monitor on AIS (a bit like air traffic control).

We deployed the genoa to start sailing to Porto where there was more shipping to perhaps distract the orcas. A large fishing boat was nearby and we moved gently over towards it. Not on AIS and not responding to VHF radio my thinking was they would be hauling fish which may be more of interest.

As darkness fell the attacks continued. After two hours the relentless banging was truly disconcerting. Then 5 minutes without an attack then 10 then 20. After half an hour we considered the ordeal to be over. Decision then was to head much closer into shore where we would be within VHF range with more boats around with safety in numbers.

These are beautiful creatures but when they come to visit as these did with a purpose which may be boisterous playing or perhaps to menace it is a reminder that they are apex predators. Not knowing what damage they did or how much they could do was the most alarming part of our encounter.

We checked the bilges for water and they were dry. The steering gear is two rudders but with a catamaran we can steer using the two engines. There were dozens of hard contacts between the orcas and the rudders so thankfully the steering gear was functioning ok.

On the basis the orcas have moved down from Finisterre heading south it was important to move with all speed to Gibraltar our destination and avoid another encounter.

[mako]

Reminds me of this tv series ZOO that I’m watching

[skenn_ie]

Glad that you survives with just a scare. Even Bottle-nosed dolphins are believed to be able to tell is a swimmer is pregnant, or otherwise "different". One well known individual, Fungi, who is frequently quite rough with swimmers, seemed to recognise a paraplegic teenager. Fungi came over slowly and very gently nudged him several times. There is no way that an Orca would mistake a boat of any kind for food or another Orca. They could probably detect severe osmosis in a GRP vessel.

I would love to encounter Orcas, but if this behavior started, I would also like to be in a very tough boat. I wonder if there was any opportunity to signal, or make eye contact with them, maybe attempt to show friendship or submission. In this case, I suspect not. I hope someone, soon, works out why they do it and a way to prevent further attacks, if that is what they are.

[NevilleCat]

Ok, so I wonder how long they left the boat just stopped, and whether that lessened what I am going to choose to call the "attack"?
Obviously sailing instead of motoring didn't seem to have any affect.
And they continued their behavior after being given an opportunity to move on to another vessel close by.
Given the responses by experienced people here, I accept that probably Orcas could do very serious damage to a vessel if they set out to and so possibly this could be termed merely "menacing behavior" as the writer of the article suggests, but given the comparatively fragile nature of standard sailboat appendages I'm not sure what other responses can be employed by the captain in that situation.
It seems that a passive response may not necessarily be the ideal solution although we don't know how long he "played dead" before setting his sail.
My question to those with more experience is; can you think of any other potential action that could be taken as a response to "menacing" or threatening behavior that might not escalate the situation to a more aggressive attack?
It hasn't been established whether the attacks are carried out by one individual or many but I assume learned behavior could eventually mean the whole pod might join in even if they are not at present yes?

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by NevilleCat

...My question to those with more experience is; can you think of any other potential action that could be taken as a response to "menacing" or threatening behavior that might not escalate the situation to a more aggressive attack?"

If members of the pod are repetitively bumping or pushing on the rudder and hull...I don't know what escalation might look like. Does it matter if you've lost your rudder off-shore? I can think of action that would seriously upset the whales, possibly causing them to go away, but most likely terribly maiming them for life...

It hasn't been established whether the attacks are carried out by one individual or many but I assume learned behavior could eventually mean the whole pod might join in even if they are not at present yes?

This would be my #1 concern. If it's true that this is a new learned behavior, whatever we want to call it...and the behavior wasn't snuffed out by frankly culling what are effectively the first orcas doing...then later on a LOT more orcas could be subject to being killed. What's tragic is that the people who most want to protect the orcas by urging wait and restraint can be responsible for the extra killing, and they'll never understand their role.

[NevilleCat]

Yeah, that was my thought too...that this behavior continues until they come up against an armed vessel or until (human) lives are lost or vessel sunk or similar to prompt some sovereignty to take action other than banning smaller vessels operating certain areas.
Of course there is plenty of precedent for culling apex predators after attacks on humans, but was wondering if any of the marine experts had any other ideas to avoid this, or to hopefully change the behavior.

[seamaiden]

Maybe "YOU" (meaning generally) don't want German Shepherds for police work, but they were used for police work for decades and still are in many places. "YOU" don't want aggressive police who batter peaceful demonstrators who are exercising their First Amendment Rights, yet police do that all the time in this country (many countries around the world). I wasn't saying it was right to use German Shepherds, but it is absolutely true that many police departments did and still do use them because of their aggressive nature. Just as many towns, cities and states employ aggressive, often violent policemen and do not dismiss them or punish them for their aggressiveness which frequently results in inappropriate, excessive, harmful treatment of people. Further, German Shepherds who are used in police work are strictly controlled by their handlers and because they work with only one handler, the handler and dog develop a bond. The dog is always under the control of the handler. That is the result of training and bonding. So a German Shepherd's aggressive nature does NOT interfere with the handler's ability to control the German Shepherd.

Why don't do you some BLOODY RESEARCH!!!

Originally Posted by PirateFoxy

People CURRENTLY herd with them and breed them FOR herding.

And you do not WANT an “aggressive” dog for police work, etc. That tends to interfere with control. You want one with a strong drive but not naturally given to immediately solving all problems with teeth. An aggressive dog will want to continue going after the target even once it has been called off - that’s a good way to wash out of a training program.

[Tupaia]

The culprits have been named Gladis 1,2 & 3



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hts-Spain.html


https://www.theguardian.com/environm...spain-portugal

[Manateeman]

Greetings all. No one understands everything about Orcas...they are very, very intelligent, but behavior in other mammals oftentimes gives insight.
The current explanation for the behavior ? Teenagers.
Cross species, teens are teens. Need I expand on that...ask your mom.
Please...let’s stop with the harpoons, guns, bombs, culls.
Stop your boat, be quiet, they get tired of the play and go away.
Harpoons didn’t do Ahab any good. It won’t help you either.
Please read my prior posts on the subject in both threads.
Keep a sharp lookout in Sperm whale areas. The can and have eaten boats and killed all the crew after being harpooned. Let sleeping Sperm whales alone.
Happy trails to you
Captain Mark and his rather civilized manatees

[PirateFoxy]

Originally Posted by seamaiden

Maybe "YOU" (meaning generally) don't want German Shepherds for police work, but they were used for police work for decades and still are in many places. "YOU" don't want aggressive police who batter peaceful demonstrators who are exercising their First Amendment Rights, yet police do that all the time in this country (many countries around the world). I wasn't saying it was right to use German Shepherds, but it is absolutely true that many police departments did and still do use them because of their aggressive nature. Just as many towns, cities and states employ aggressive, often violent policemen and do not dismiss them or punish them for their aggressiveness which frequently results in inappropriate, excessive, harmful treatment of people. Further, German Shepherds who are used in police work are strictly controlled by their handlers and because they work with only one handler, the handler and dog develop a bond. The dog is always under the control of the handler. That is the result of training and bonding. So a German Shepherd's aggressive nature does NOT interfere with the handler's ability to control the German Shepherd.

Why don't do you some BLOODY RESEARCH!!!

I’ve known a number of guard/police/protection dog trainers quite well, as it happens, and THEY are the ones who will tell people that actual aggression is a disqualifying trait in a properly trained dog. You’re welcome to go tell them they’re doing it wrong and that they should be encouraging human aggression in their breeding and training practices.

Since you didn’t know that German Shepards are herding dogs and still used for herding in some places and absolutely still have herding traits (that’s where the ‘drive’ comes from that makes them so trainable and able to focus on a task) I’m not seeing how I’m the one who needs to do research. But whatever you want to believe.