There is no Planet B

[GordMay]

NOAA Climate Science & Services Monthly Climate Update:
February 2019 (summary, in brief)
- Global Land + Ocean: +0.88°C / +1.58°F
- Tied with 2007 as the third warmest Jan in the 140-year record
- The 10 warmest Jan have all occurred since 2002
– Jan 2019 marks the 43rd consecutive Jan, and the 409th consecutive month with temperatures above the 20th century average.
- Global Land: +1.51°C / +2.72°F
- 4th warmest on record
- Global Ocean: +0.65°C / +1.17°F
- 3rd warmest on record The global temperature record dates to 1880 (140 years)
- Almost certain (99.9% chance) 2019 will end among the 10 warmest years on record
Much More ➥ https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/briefings/201902.pdf

[jmorrison146]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Here's another link to one of my favorite sites
(Unofficial) Record-breaking temperatures across the Globe


There are 275 sites yesterday that are reporting record or near record high temps for the day or month and only 21 reporting record or near record lows. Only occasionally will the record lows will outnumber the record highs but that is rare. This is proof that the planet is warming. The data doesn't lie.

Only relevant if the number of reporting sites remains constant over a significant period of time, which it has not.

[jmorrison146]

Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff

Anytime you hear the words climate change or carbon consider using the term 'human impact'.

If the human impact is negative stop doing it or do it less. Conversely if human impact is good then keep doing it. Simple measures, simple solutions and good education is needed.

The whole climate change debacle is a political mess and it's almost impossible to have any sensible debates. Too many scientific luddites (politicians, media, charlatans, etc) latch onto single threaded fud and quickly develop religious beliefs that stop all rational thinking.

Solving climate change is a wicked problem that we barely understand. So if we think stupid nation state targets are a good idea then we are dumber than we look. Wicked problems are policy resistant, irreversible, dependent on history, have effects not simply related to causes and aren't solvable in short political or commercial timeframes.

The planet will always strive to reach an equilibrium regardless of the stupidity of humans. This constantly evolving equilibrium will sometimes be beneficial to humans, sometimes it will be negative.

Here's my take on Human Impact we could tackle today with little impact on economies.

Negative Human Impact
- overfishing
- twice daily single occupant commuting
- unnecessary retail consumption
- city planning that promotes commuting and heat islands
- Tax product packaging at source to force plastics out of common use
- Penalize rampant consumption and incentivize reuse and repair
- Change corporate incentives to mive away from the current rampant cinsumerization model
- Global supply chain to incentivize local produce and local consumption

Positive Human Impact
- Renewables and non grid dependent services, specifically energy, water and sewer
- Reforestation
- Marine parks
- Remote work and telecommuting
- Anti poaching

A positive human impact would be for those that believe to do whatever they feel they need to do while leaving me alone to do what believe I need to do in my life. I believe in a need to defeat socialism, primarily because capitalism has benefitted mankind far more through promoting innovation, rewarding (not suppressing) initiative, and bringing people out of poverty. "All enemies foreign and domestic".

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Ok. Then give us your long-term prognostications. 10, 50, 100 years out, etc.

lets see here start with 10 years out ( I will go with your short term numbers to start.
10 years the co2 will be little changed. Temperatures will be 1℃ to 1.5℃ below the 1989 to 2010 average .
50 years co2 will have increased to about 450ppm to 475ppm temperatures will be stable at about 2℃ below average .
100 years co2 500ppm to 550ppm planet green and temps stable at the 1989 to 2010 average .
At which point it will all start over again. With cooling first.

How's that for crackpot theory.

The unfortunate part is that due to the main stream pushing the agw narrative hundreds of millions will starve due to the cold affecting crop growth.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

Well, I posted my theory 24 hours ago and got met with one "I'll get back to you" and one ad hominem attack on the source of my data which is pretty much atypical. And zip from your good self, Mr HPeer.



Bit hard to carry on any form of discussion with those responses.

Link back and show me. If I did that I’ll correct my errors.

Right now it’s an unsubstantiated assertion.

[David M]

Not every country is going to sign on to an international agreement. The more extreme the agreement, the less likely this is to happen.

(Staying out of the politics)

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by newhaul

you mean like this news article I found . From 1922

Completely irrelevant to the discussion and you know it. You are attempting to derail the conversation once again. Post something that shows the oceans are cooling, the Artic is having record ice extent/volume, the glaciers are increasing, the Antarctic ice masses are increasing.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by ZipTie

There is no Planet B

2015 Paris Climate Pledges have an ambitious goal which would require zero level emissions sometime between 2030 and 2050.

With nearly every nation on earth having now pledged to gradually reduce emissions of the heat-trapping gases that are warming our planet.

The Paris Agreement marks “the beginning of the end of the fossil-fuel era,”

So where do cruisers go from here? No, diesel or gas motors or generators.

Sail ?
Solar ?
Electric ?
Fuel Cell ?
Wind Turbine ?

In my opinion,you've answered your own question with these 5 options.

Let us remember the Mariners of the past who used much less to get to where they wanted to travel.

Want to have a Planet to sail?
New green deal, radical changes.
Let us not be so centered on ourselves.
Let us Strive to Help the Generations to come
SV Cloud Duster

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Ok. Then give us your long-term prognostications. 10, 50, 100 years out, etc.

Look back at post #650 and #686. Newhaul gave me some clues to his theory, I researched it, posted the links, the responded with my analysis. He has more or less accepted that as a sufficient explanation of his theory.

In short it is CRC Cosmic Ray Cooling via increased cloud cover and more volcanic activity. It has absolutely no impact on AWG green house has theory.

He has explicitly admitted Earth has been warming until 2016. He did not address how or why Eart was warming.

As near as I can tell he is just here to agitate folks with nothing further positive to add.


I’ve asked all the denialist to identify which Flavor of denialism they adhere to
A -there is no warming, Earth is cooling
B - Earth is warming, it is by other processes

And I’ve asked them tonstate their theory as to why it is happening.
Newhaul is the only one to respond so far. Reefmagnet says he did but I don’t recall it.

As near as I can see all these deniers are simply trying to tear down other people with nothing positive of their own to add.

The only thing they have in common is their haterd of AWG. There is absolutely no scientific consensus for any alternative theories. Nothing constructive to the conversation.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by jmorrison146

A positive human impact would be for those that believe to do whatever they feel they need to do while leaving me alone to do what believe I need to do in my life. I believe in a need to defeat socialism, primarily because capitalism has benefitted mankind far more through promoting innovation, rewarding (not suppressing) initiative, and bringing people out of poverty. "All enemies foreign and domestic".

Why someone would not want positive change for all is a product of Capitalism.
A Hidious self serving idealism, born out of the Fear of not having enough.
Socialism and Communism are not the same.
We want free Education to teach the Dang difference to those that cannot conceive the differences.
SV Cloud Duster

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Completely irrelevant to the discussion and you know it. You are attempting to derail the conversation once again. Post something that shows the oceans are cooling, the Artic is having record ice extent/volume, the glaciers are increasing, the Antarctic ice masses are increasing.

actually quite relevant to the conversation at the time about marine species migrations northward. Shows that it has happened before and will happen again.


Ok how about Greenland glaciers have had an estimated 100 to 150 gt or more net increase in volumes in each of the past several years.
https://nsidc.org/greenland-today/

The net snow input mass to 130 billion tons above the 1981 to 2010 average. This was followed by a near-average melt and runoff period, resulting in a large net mass gain for the ice sheet in 2018 of 150 billion tons

Or this
Antarctica ice increasing as well.
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard...er-than-losses

[jmorrison146]

Originally Posted by Boatyarddog

Why someone would not want positive change for all is a product of Capitalism.

A Hidious self serving idealism, born out of the Fear of not having enough.

Socialism and Communism are not the same.

We want free Education to teach the Dang difference to those that cannot conceive the differences.

SV Cloud Duster

Accusing me of "self-serving idealism, born out of fear of not having enough"? You know me? I think not. Do what you like but don't tell me what what and what I have to do to suit your ideas of "positive change". True, Socialism and Communism are not the same but one surely leads to another. Once the Socialists have enough power, they become Communists. The Venezuelan government recently burned truckloads of humanitarian aid that had somehow gotten through their border controls because they didn't control it. Are they still Socialists or have they become Communists?

[newhaul]

Or how about this seems like its at the long term average with the exception of the bearing sea.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by newhaul

actually quite relevant to the conversation at the time about marine species migrations northward. Shows that it has happened before and will happen again.


Ok how about Greenland glaciers have had an estimated 100 to 150 gt or more net increase in volumes in each of the past several years.
https://nsidc.org/greenland-today/

The net snow input mass to 130 billion tons above the 1981 to 2010 average. This was followed by a near-average melt and runoff period, resulting in a large net mass gain for the ice sheet in 2018 of 150 billion tons

Or this
Antarctica ice increasing as well.
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard...er-than-losses

Cherry picking time frame and miss construing features. Greenland is getting more snow because ther is more moisture. Doesn’t mean the ice cap is growing over any statistically significant period.

As to the Antarctic that has explained to you repeatedly in recent posts. The ice shelf’s are disintegrating and you know it. There is no point in repeating ad nauseaum in a vain attempt to educate you. It’s a fools errand.

That is one of your problems, you confuse weather with climate change. You grab onto some factoid and blow it out of proportion. You’ve no sense of systems or trends.

When you muff some expalanation you excuse yorself for poor writing skills. Weaseling. Yet you are the best of the crowd, I’ll give you that. Your CRC has enough merit to watch it.

It is statistically evident that on any given subject, no matter how clearly explained and documented there will be some fringe who just absolutely refuse to accept the evident facts. Even today here are those who argue the Earth is flat. This is the realm of deniers.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Look back at post #650 and #686. Newhaul gave me some clues to his theory, I researched it, posted the links, the responded with my analysis. He has more or less accepted that as a sufficient explanation of his theory.

In short it is CRC Cosmic Ray Cooling via increased cloud cover and more volcanic activity. It has absolutely no impact on AWG green house has theory.

He has explicitly admitted Earth has been warming until 2016. He did not address how or why Eart was warming..

There is absolutely no scientific consensus for any alternative theories. Nothing constructive to the conversation.

actually I did address that a few pages back the modern grand solar maximum. Which peaked with cycle 19 in 1957.
Remember there is a 50 to 70 year lag time in results due to the oceans mitigation factors ( takes a little time to warm water but a longer time to cool back down.
( I explained it in better detail previously)