The Way to Treat Pirates

[ozskipper]

Originally Posted by susanna reiter

Thanks for that ......for too long the Somalia Pirates have wrecked havoc on so many for so long...Good On Ya Russians ...way ta go !!!!

We still need the russians it seems. The western nations have to show compassion and fairness to the pirates. While the Ruskis can still be cowboys and flex a few laws here and there.

On a side note, we can only blame the cold war on how many guns are in northern africa. If the west and Soviets didnt sabre rattle for so long, half these ex soviet army guns wouldnt exist and piracy would be a more expensive as a business model with the lack of hardware pushing the price of guns and RLs up.

[sparau]

Originally Posted by rubyjean

Now this should piss off all the passavist people in the world. New concept, defend your self and your property. ..Michael..

according to this report, that is what the pirates are doing.

Pirate Coast - Somalia - YouTube

they say that it started due to hunger, with foreign fishing vessels illegally fishing, so first they took a fishing boat and it grew.

in the interview with a pirate he states (something like, i watched it a few weeks ago) that he's not afraid of the fact that the western world is starting to use them for high-tech target practice, they can hide and with starvation as the other alternative piracy will continue.

my question is perhaps the many millions spent blowing them up might be better spent with a kinder hand.

[rubyjean]

Originally Posted by sparau

according to this report, that is what the pirates are doing.

they say that it started due to hunger, with foreign fishing vessels illegally fishing, so first they took a fishing boat and it grew.

in the interview with a pirate he states (something like, i watched it a few weeks ago) that he's not afraid of the fact that the western world is starting to use them for high-tech target practice, they can hide and with starvation as the other alternative piracy will continue.

my question is perhaps the many millions spent blowing them up might be better spent with a kinder hand.

Are you serious...............Michael..

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by rubyjean

Are you serious...............Michael..

Come on, " a kinder hand." Yeah that's the ticket!

[SimonV]

Just holding the world to ransom. Oh wow is me, I am poor so I can do what I want and the world can pay me. Just welfare on a different level, and the bleeding hearts will stand up for them. The sooner the bleeding hearts and civil libertarians pull their heads in the sooner this mess will be over. JMHO.

[sparau]

what would you do if you were starving and had access to military firearms? the threat of death is only a threat if you aren't dying.

seems logical to me that we'd be more likely to end piracy with food and supporting the local government than occasionally obliterating a few of them.

its a war that can't be won without a near invasion force of patrolling ships, if people are starving, replacement pirates will come. what purpose does it serve to do this?

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by SimonV

Just holding the world to ransom. Oh wow is me, I am poor so I can do what I want and the world can pay me. Just welfare on a different level, and the bleeding hearts will stand up for them. The sooner the bleeding hearts and civil libertarians pull their heads in the sooner this mess will be over. JMHO.

Oh, please explain to me how piracy is the fault of "bleeding hearts and civil libertarians".

[sarafina]

Originally Posted by Doodles

Oh, please explain to me how piracy is the fault of "bleeding hearts and civil libertarians".

Please, don't. That would be dragging this thread straight into political waters. Which would sink it more rapidly than it is under its current momentum...

[Target9000]

Originally Posted by sparau

what would you do if you were starving and had access to military firearms? the threat of death is only a threat if you aren't dying.

I'd start farms, livestock and agricultural movements. I'd start businesses. I'd run the "bad guys" out and try to rally the people to stand up for a working AND SELF SUFFICIENT model. Access to military firearms grants the option to fight for good just as easily as it grants the option to fight for bad.

Piracy will never lead these people to prosperity. You can easily argue that allowing it continue is actually more horrible for them. Its continued dependence, and a dangerous and awful dependence where people must die at that.

[captain58sailin]

When the people are systematically held down either socially or economically, it is the breeding ground for extremists, it also leaves the door wide open for the radicals to recruit and convert followers, what do they have to lose? They are already dying. My dear departed Uncle used to say, " You can't starve a profit." He was referring to raising cattle, but it works the same with people.

[boatman61]

Do unto others as they would do unto you....
Just get the timing right....

[hummingway]

They were certainly right to start capturing the fishing boats. The problem was they started too late when there was no fish left. At that point they began leaving the waters of their own nation and became the problem not the solution.

The problem with threads like this is people like to substitute self righteous rhetoric for knowledge and understanding of the problem.

For those of you that think this will solve the problem, do you have any idea what life is like for the pirates? I understand that you would be deterred by this action but then I don't imagine any of you would have been there in the first place. The lives of the people taking these actions don't in any way resemble yours. Mogadishu is the most dangerous city in the world. You take your life in your hands walking down the street.

Others will follow the few killed in this action but this ship will continue on anywayand so will cargo carriers that take this approach. I've read that the big fuel tankers can't risk shots being fired so if the cargo carriers aren't targets the oil tankers will likely become a greater target.

As for those who think that they will hold off the pirates with guns blazing from the deck of a sailboat moving 7 knots, well, would you like us to mention anything in your obituary other then "his bravado exceeded his survival instincts"?

[minaret]

Originally Posted by hummingway

They were certainly right to start capturing the fishing boats. The problem was they started too late when there was no fish left. At that point they began leaving the waters of their own nation and became the problem not the solution.

The problem with threads like this is people like to substitute self righteous rhetoric for knowledge and understanding of the problem.

For those of you that think this will solve the problem, do you have any idea what life is like for the pirates? I understand that you would be deterred by this action but then I don't imagine any of you would have been there in the first place. The lives of the people taking these actions don't in any way resemble yours. Mogadishu is the most dangerous city in the world. You take your life in your hands walking down the street.

Others will follow the few killed in this action but this ship will continue on anywayand so will cargo carriers that take this approach. I've read that the big fuel tankers can't risk shots being fired so if the cargo carriers aren't targets the oil tankers will likely become a greater target.

As for those who think that they will hold off the pirates with guns blazing from the deck of a sailboat moving 7 knots, well, would you like us to mention anything in your obituary other then "his bravado exceeded his survival instincts"?

Finally the adults arrive on this thread. Anyone who thinks that shooting a few poor pirates will make any difference is nuts. The alternative for them is to watch their families starve, an easy decision to make for most. And the people who would get shot are making almost no money, in the main they are just kids who work for the real criminals higher up in the org, same as any military or other criminal orginisation in the world. Shooting a few of them will just up the ante and cause more violence, there are a thousand replacements standing by for each one of them. And the people who are really responsible arent headed out to sea in little boats to risk their asses, thats not how it works. It would actually be much cheaper to try a humanitarian approach in that part of the world than a military, and those who are suggesting we have been doing so for a long time to no effect are just wrong. Private charities and the UN have pumped in much aid, but without military backing it all just gets taken by whichever warlord is in power at the moment. The african union offered to send troops to safegaurd aid shipments and were mostly turned down for political reasons. And we all know the real reasons that many governments desire instability in the region-oil. Funny that the janjaweed and other elements of terror and instability in the region come from OPEC nations. Libya is bad enough for them but if all of north africa was opened up for oil exploitation they would lose billions and the price of gas would drop overnight. The same reason Saddam had to go, not so we could get the oil but to make sure no one could get it and keep prices high. Somalia has been a lawless nation for so long because thats how the powers that be want it, and its likely to stay that way whether a few hungry young somali kids on boats get shot or not. Its a huge lawless nation with a population of millions, you're not solving the problem that easily.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by sparau

according to this report, that is what the pirates are doing.

they say that it started due to hunger, with foreign fishing vessels illegally fishing, so first they took a fishing boat and it grew.

in the interview with a pirate he states (something like, i watched it a few weeks ago) that he's not afraid of the fact that the western world is starting to use them for high-tech target practice, they can hide and with starvation as the other alternative piracy will continue.

my question is perhaps the many millions spent blowing them up might be better spent with a kinder hand.

I wonder how much those "tourist guides" charge?

[sparau]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

My thought on this is that I think the US at least, and many other organizations have a track record of trying to supply various regions with food and expertise on one thing and another for lotsa years. Nothing much has worked, and at tremendous expense.

Tremendous expense is clearly a relative term.

World wide military spending ~1600 billion.

World wide aid spending ~100 billion (best figures i could find).

So we can probably rule out fiscal reasons why no-one is helping the Somalis.