The Philosophy Behind Sailing Simply and Cheaply

[conachair]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Yet a Buddhist monk is not born a monk, but someone that chooses the simple meditative live. That simple life, comes in many shapes and sizes. The buddhist monk could have started out as an investment banker or airline pilot. So in that reguard, one can choose to let go of the complex life and live simply. Happens all the time.

Some of us, actually do have a desire to live simply.

I think, though, in the the Buddhist example the simplicity is not in the external but internal. Being able to focus on just the present moment without a head going full pelt, planning, judging, being everywhere apart from the present moment. If a investment banker or airline pilot can manage the same focus then the experience of simplicity could well be the same. Simple isn`t outside, simple is inside, away from labels and judging.

Or something like that.

Probably

[virginia boy]

Originally Posted by conachair

I think, though, in the the Buddhist example the simplicity is not in the external but internal. Being able to focus on just the present moment without a head going full pelt, planning, judging, being everywhere apart from the present moment. If a investment banker or airline pilot can manage the same focus then the experience of simplicity could well be the same. Simple isn`t outside, simple is inside, away from labels and judging.

Or something like that.

Probably

I haven't met any serene investment bankers in the recent past and I have yet to master that neat little trick of ignoring the outside (or the past and future) in order to focus on the now, so I'm forced to simplify by minimizing the material stuff that stresses me. Besides, I don't think I have enough years left to become a good monk. I don't think meditation works very well unless you do it every day and that's too complicated for me.

[Gelfling]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

I currently live well within the poverty level though not at all suffering from it at all. Actually makes life interesting and frankly for me better then making a 100k/ year and stressing about everything..

if my boat caught fire, You bet I would be tossing water on it, as by the time the fire department arrived the boat would be a total loss. Got my bucket for that

Yes I live in the US. But I could live impractically anywhere else with the exact same low impact lifestyle I currently enjoy.. Well on water anyway. To much complexity required on land, I think.

Yes to some extent it does require a complex civilization to afford one to live simply. I can see that up to a point. But living simply is what I do, no matter which yardstick you use.. Mind you, most guys would not want to live as simply as I do, let along other women. But it can be done, Simply and easily too.

My cat on the other hand is a complex little bugger

I can say......I have lived all over the world..... and while I have met 'a few' men and women with this outlook, NONE of them were American. It appears that you are part of a whole other '1%'. Though you may not be 'American' or like me you were displaced for a portion of you life.....but none the less....I say BRAVO to ya!

[atoll]

in all things if you want "simplicity",first you have to master "economy"

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Its a mistake to characterize people living in poverty as living simple lives. Experience shows us that all groups living on poverty would gladly "complicate" their lives with a little bit less poverty.

Oh, I agree. But there lives are simple relative to us in the West and that was my point. I'm sure without a doubt giving the resources they would complicated their lives just as quickly as we have. That's why they are called "developing" countries, they're just on the way to being like us.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond

Looking at your avatar I reckon you've about reached it. Time to draw the line...

Yea, probably time for a grocery cart.

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by Doodles

Yea, probably time for a grocery cart.

Push it like you stole it.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

Push it like you stole it.

Love it! LOL

[Hillbillylad]

Originally Posted by conachair

I think, though, in the the Buddhist example the simplicity is not in the external but internal. Being able to focus on just the present moment without a head going full pelt, planning, judging, being everywhere apart from the present moment. If a investment banker or airline pilot can manage the same focus then the experience of simplicity could well be the same. Simple isn`t outside, simple is inside, away from labels and judging.

Or something like that.

Probably

Yes to this , in so much as simplicity is within.
No matter what equipment you carry you are restricted by your abilities to maintain it. If you are an engineer then having a diesel engine is simple. An electronics / electrical expert is not phased by a failure in some needed component.
however, this lasts to the point where outside assistance is required and simplicity has then gone.
Simplicity in life is the ability to sustain yourself without the need for outside support. the less support you need the more simple your life becomes. The less dependant you are on government / religion to dictate your ethical values or tradesman to dictate the goods you use the more able you are to live a simple life.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Hillbillylad

Yes to this , in so much as simplicity is within.
No matter what equipment you carry you are restricted by your abilities to maintain it. If you are an engineer then having a diesel engine is simple. An electronics / electrical expert is not phased by a failure in some needed component.
however, this lasts to the point where outside assistance is required and simplicity has then gone.
Simplicity in life is the ability to sustain yourself without the need for outside support. the less support you need the more simple your life becomes. The less dependant you are on government / religion to dictate your ethical values or tradesman to dictate the goods you use the more able you are to live a simple life.

No , that is the philosophy of survivalists not simplistics. Human beings live and build co-operate societies , why?, because humans are not good generalists. we work better in groups depending on specialists to create a sum greater then the parts society. Simple civilisations interact with each other and trade and employ specialists. ( a cook is an example). Mixing up simple with survivalism is to confuse a reasonable existence with a debased one.

Dave

[Hillbillylad]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

No , that is the philosophy of survivalists not simplistics. Human beings live and build co-operate societies , why?, because humans are not good generalists. we work better in groups depending on specialists to create a sum greater then the parts society. Simple civilisations interact with each other and trade and employ specialists. ( a cook is an example). Mixing up simple with survivalism is to confuse a reasonable existence with a debased one.

Dave

Hmmmm, though I see your point, I'm not sure i made mine clear enough.
Living self sufficiently and independent does not require one to be anti social. Mankind thrives on interaction, it is a major part of the human psyche. However, dependency is a different issue. When we depend on society for all we think and all we do we have lost all links to simplicity. Dependency on society is of course the cause of the current crop of the worlds ills. Even at the highest level such as banks, everyone has become dependent on someone else to bail them out. Nothing is simple anymore as long as we continue our desperate need for others to hold our hand,

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Hillbillylad

Hmmmm, though I see your point, I'm not sure i made mine clear enough.
Living self sufficiently and independent does not require one to be anti social. Mankind thrives on interaction, it is a major part of the human psyche. However, dependency is a different issue. When we depend on society for all we think and all we do we have lost all links to simplicity. Dependency on society is of course the cause of the current crop of the worlds ills. Even at the highest level such as banks, everyone has become dependent on someone else to bail them out. Nothing is simple anymore as long as we continue our desperate need for others to hold our hand,

It's a nice utopia to consider a self sufficient world. It's far too late ( about 500 years too late) for that. We all interconnected whether we like it or not. Just to own or operate boat requires connections to the "sophisticated" world. As for "dependency on society" you're beginning to sound like looney thatcher. Many modern societies have been successfully built on a societal co-operative model ( or more correctly with significant elements of such ) in many modern societies various safety nets and social protections have been created to ensure that extremes of poverty don't happen.

To suggest that therefore "we depend on society for we think" is an absurd statement. This is veering off into the political. One can live simply within a societal model or a very liberal democratic society without loosing ones self determination. Many populations have decided that their society is one that does hold the hand of the weakest. Nothing wrong with that at all.

None of that has to do with simple living. I would define it as living without more then you need ( of course you and society around you tend to set the bar of "need") . Most people would define a boat as more then a "need", so we're not off to a good start. ( boaters of course are arch self-delusionists )

Dave

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow;938336 ...
boaters of course are arch self-delusionists[/B

Dave

a)You mean the need for $100k+ daysailer/weekenders?

b)I'm bored at work, think I'll circumnavigate.

c)the need for this? In the name of safety for jod's sake.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

c)the need for this? In the name of safety for jod's sake.

Barely room for a 15 foot RIB . and a motorbike .

[Bash]

Originally Posted by callmecrazy

We have to be able to define simplicity in order to have a conversation about the philosophy behind it....

It may be that "simplicity" is not the best term. What a lot of people are expressing on this thread echo the Zen concept of mindfullness, or what Thoreau was after with the concept of living "deliberately."

"I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived."

Henry David Thoreau