Tesla Electric Yacht unveiled...

[first wind]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

"Dreamers, idealists, entrepreneurs, scientists, researcher and so on"...that's great but "asking the right questions" is exactly my point. "Hybrid" has a nice ring to it even if you haven't got a clue what I does. Those who make things happen ask the hard questions. Just having enough "hope and dreams" doesn't make new technology happen...

So I say again: What are you trying to accomplish?

i think you kind of misunderstand because of the use of the word 'hybrid'. as you point out, 'hybrid engine' actually denotes a specific kind of power plant. however, many people use it to mean any kind of power creation that is not strictly fossil fuel driven; where some or most of the power comes from another source. and, that usage is not wholly incorrect.

the word 'hybrid' means: "the offspring of two plants or animals of different species or varieties, such as a mule (a hybrid of a donkey and a horse) or a thing made by combining two different elements; a mixture.

to give a specific answer to the question of what is the goal people wish to achieve with 'hybrid' engines:

they are looking to find/use alternative energy forms that will provide for our needs while having far less negative environmental costs than existing methods and that will be renewable so that energy production will be insured for future generations.

i kind of thought everyone understood that's what it's about.

as i said before, a big part of our need to seriously consider these issues (perhaps the biggest part) is because of our exponentially growing planetary population.

as a largish, top of the food chain animal that needs a lot of space, our populations should be rather small when compared to the populations of other species. if you look at the rest of life on this planet, that's how it works: there are a lot fewer wolves than rabbits. but, we have conquered all of our natural enemies (even diseases to an amazing level) and we do not moderate our reproduction rates to make up for the higher survival rate.

since the industrial revolution, populations the world over have exponentially grown like never before. the population of America, alone, exceeds the population of the whole planet, as it was in the past.

during past times, when population density passed a certain point, people began to migrate to other areas. as the land becomes too crowded to comfortably support the people, they spread to other areas to relieve that tension. small populations that fit the areas they occupy generally don't go on migrations. they don't need to. their local environment provides them with what they need to survive.

the trouble is, we can't just load up the ships and sail off to discover new land to spread to. we have taken everything the planet has. ever wonder why there is this sudden recent surge of interest in travel to mars and finding other habitable worlds? we are looking for new lands to sail to. the trouble is, as we all know, our technology for sailing those seas isn't as good as our ancestors' technology was for sailing these seas.

so, we have a problem.

it's not even some 'green' hippy-dippy idealism. it's a practical issue. yes, decades ago some people warned that the planet would no longer be able to support us by now. and, because they were wrong in their projected time frame, a lot of people think that the idea is invalid and there is no limit to how many hairless apes the planet can support.

truth is, if i predict your furnace will need replaced in ten years and it hasn't died by the ten year anniversary of my prediction, it doesn't mean it's never going to need replaced. it just means that it lasted past the time my professional experience has shown me furnaces usually last. even though people can live to be over 100, the average human life expectancy is still around 75. if you live past 75, it doesn't mean you are immortal.

our numbers have grown so great that it's already uncomfortable in a lot of areas and food (and even water) has to be shipped in to support life because the land, in those areas, can not support us all. human waste disposal has become a huge issue and takes a fairly large organization/system to handle it and it's still an issue. we literally produce more crap than our environment can handle. we are overpopulated but, deny it vehemently.

in true human fashion, we adapt. we get used to being over crowded. we get used to the social problems overpopulation causes. we ship food in as we need it. we create a huge waste disposal industry to deal with our crap. and, we never stop to think of these things and what they really mean.

it's what humans do: we adapt. i have often thought how silly the christian concept of a place of eternal punishment is. no matter how bad hell is, we would adapt and get used to it. i mean, if you see a person paralyzed from the neck down, you think 'i couldn't live like that...i'd rather die.' but, people adapt to being paralyzed or having no legs or being blind or....

and, since we can't just hop in our ships and sail to a new promised land, we just adapt to our overpopulation and lots of us never think of it again.

but, it is a serious issue. as a band-aid, finding alternative energy forms can (and must) help the problem. scientists are looking into alternative food sources, like insects, that can produce more food in less space. drinkable water is still a problem no one seems to have any real ideas about. but, in the end, we will eventually have to deal with the real problem; there are simply too many of us. we will either have to drastically reduce reproduction to bring existing populations down to workable levels or we are going to have to find a way for a lot of us to go live somewhere else.

until we do that, the search for alternative energy sources to power our needs is going to be on a lot of people's minds.

[Enrique100]

Originally Posted by first wind

i think you kind of misunderstand because of the use of the word 'hybrid'. as you point out, 'hybrid engine' actually denotes a specific kind of power plant. however, many people use it to mean any kind of power creation that is not strictly fossil fuel driven; where some or most of the power comes from another source. and, that usage is not wholly incorrect.



the word 'hybrid' means: "the offspring of two plants or animals of different species or varieties, such as a mule (a hybrid of a donkey and a horse) or a thing made by combining two different elements; a mixture.



to give a specific answer to the question of what is the goal people wish to achieve with 'hybrid' engines:



they are looking to find/use alternative energy forms that will provide for our needs while having far less negative environmental costs than existing methods and that will be renewable so that energy production will be insured for future generations.



i kind of thought everyone understood that's what it's about.



as i said before, a big part of our need to seriously consider these issues (perhaps the biggest part) is because of our exponentially growing planetary population.



as a largish, top of the food chain animal that needs a lot of space, our populations should be rather small when compared to the populations of other species. if you look at the rest of life on this planet, that's how it works: there are a lot fewer wolves than rabbits. but, we have conquered all of our natural enemies (even diseases to an amazing level) and we do not moderate our reproduction rates to make up for the higher survival rate.



since the industrial revolution, populations the world over have exponentially grown like never before. the population of America, alone, exceeds the population of the whole planet, as it was in the past.



during past times, when population density passed a certain point, people began to migrate to other areas. as the land becomes too crowded to comfortably support the people, they spread to other areas to relieve that tension. small populations that fit the areas they occupy generally don't go on migrations. they don't need to. their local environment provides them with what they need to survive.



the trouble is, we can't just load up the ships and sail off to discover new land to spread to. we have taken everything the planet has. ever wonder why there is this sudden recent surge of interest in travel to mars and finding other habitable worlds? we are looking for new lands to sail to. the trouble is, as we all know, our technology for sailing those seas isn't as good as our ancestors' technology was for sailing these seas.



so, we have a problem.



it's not even some 'green' hippy-dippy idealism. it's a practical issue. yes, decades ago some people warned that the planet would no longer be able to support us by now. and, because they were wrong in their projected time frame, a lot of people think that the idea is invalid and there is no limit to how many hairless apes the planet can support.



truth is, if i predict your furnace will need replaced in ten years and it hasn't died by the ten year anniversary of my prediction, it doesn't mean it's never going to need replaced. it just means that it lasted past the time my professional experience has shown me furnaces usually last. even though people can live to be over 100, the average human life expectancy is still around 75. if you live past 75, it doesn't mean you are immortal.



our numbers have grown so great that it's already uncomfortable in a lot of areas and food (and even water) has to be shipped in to support life because the land, in those areas, can not support us all. human waste disposal has become a huge issue and takes a fairly large organization/system to handle it and it's still an issue. we literally produce more crap than our environment can handle. we are overpopulated but, deny it vehemently.



in true human fashion, we adapt. we get used to being over crowded. we get used to the social problems overpopulation causes. we ship food in as we need it. we create a huge waste disposal industry to deal with our crap. and, we never stop to think of these things and what they really mean.



it's what humans do: we adapt. i have often thought how silly the christian concept of a place of eternal punishment is. no matter how bad hell is, we would adapt and get used to it. i mean, if you see a person paralyzed from the neck down, you think 'i couldn't live like that...i'd rather die.' but, people adapt to being paralyzed or having no legs or being blind or....



and, since we can't just hop in our ships and sail to a new promised land, we just adapt to our overpopulation and lots of us never think of it again.



but, it is a serious issue. as a band-aid, finding alternative energy forms can (and must) help the problem. scientists are looking into alternative food sources, like insects, that can produce more food in less space. drinkable water is still a problem no one seems to have any real ideas about. but, in the end, we will eventually have to deal with the real problem; there are simply too many of us. we will either have to drastically reduce reproduction to bring existing populations down to workable levels or we are going to have to find a way for a lot of us to go live somewhere else.



until we do that, the search for alternative energy sources to power our needs is going to be on a lot of people's minds.

For crying out loud it's a boat

[clwhitt]

I like to say that my all electric Formosa 41 is a Tesla, but when I put a generator in it, it will then be a Prius. Maybe all I need is one of those hydro-generators to keep thinking of it as a Tesla?

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Pete7

They seemed to have cracked perpetual motion:

"it uses a hydroelectricity turbine system located beneath the hull that collects energy as it flows through the water"

Oh, perpetual motion. If they can overcome the laws of physics.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by clwhitt

I like to say that my all electric Formosa 41 is a Tesla, but when I put a generator in it, it will then be a Prius. Maybe all I need is one of those hydro-generators to keep thinking of it as a Tesla?

Until the Prius came on the market I doubt few even remembered Tesla. Everyone did Edison but forget the guy that put power in all out home.

[SaylorMade]

Originally Posted by visscher

They are improving solar panels, electric motors and battery storage at an incredible rate that most people are oblivious to - but if you apply what they already have to a catamaran, you get results that few people would believe.

I don't see any battery storage improvements at an incredible rate.
I would like to hear about it, since I am considering to repower my sailboat with electric.

[jongleur]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

That's about 50 men pedalling like fury, and the heat's gonna turn off if five minutes!
TrentePieds

Since you're bringing up straw man arguments,
why not calculate the number of aardvarks
pedaling like fury? Meaningless.

[Racoon]

I can't believe it... all this back and forth because I had a wish for a more green propulsion system on a sailboat. Can't wait to see what will happen when a real issue comes up! As you can tell I am am newbie to both sailing and forums...

[Racoon]

7 aardvarks. It's been tested and I read it on Facebook :-)

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "...humans need to start considering population growth control as a part of environmental sustainability but, if you even mention something like that, people have a fit"

Well, let's all have a fit then :-) Flo Nightingale and George Lister have a lot to answer for. Their legacy has reduced the death rate of the human race so far below the birth rate that there really isn't any way back.

Do you have a workable, morally acceptable suggestion for increasing the death rate to equal the birthrate? While we are at it, we prolly need to enhance the death rate so that at some target date - let it be set by the UN - we reduce Planet Earth's "viral load" of H.sapiens to, say, half of what it is now.

Now, in my lifetime a number of despots have tried to accomplish that. None of us liked it!

The option of course is the TrentePieds "Green Stamp" method of birth control :-)

TrentePieds

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by Racoon

I can't believe it... all this back and forth because I had a wish for a more green propulsion system on a sailboat. Can't wait to see what will happen when a real issue comes up! As you can tell I am am newbie to both sailing and forums...

You can't get much greener than sails. Use organic hemp sails if that matters to you. Bring oars to further reduce your footprint.

[TrentePieds]

Yep - the windbags of old were the original and ultimate solar powered vehicles.

And the reason that so much of "the Old World" lost here original forestation was not principally that forests were cut to build ships, but rather that HUGE quantities of wood were required to convert solar energy to kinetic energy (think spear heads and swords) by way smelting such things a myremalm ("bog iron", hematite) - done with charcoal - into iron for the Military-Industrial Complex pf the time.

When will we ever learn :-)?

TrentePieds

[adoxograph]

Originally Posted by Racoon

I can't believe it... all this back and forth because I had a wish for a more green propulsion system on a sailboat. Can't wait to see what will happen when a real issue comes up! As you can tell I am am newbie to both sailing and forums...

Start a global warming thread or one discussing anchors and you will see

[lordgeoff]

Originally Posted by adoxograph

Start a global warming thread or one discussing anchors and you will see

.....or suggest how a Garmin GPS works...

[StuM]

Try asking about guns on board