Sloop, Cutter, Ketch or Cutter-ketch?

[DumnMad]

Posted the same time Jim :-)

Takes all sorts eh.

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I gotta wonder if you have ever been becalmed at sea? Even when there is little wind, there is usually enough swell to get most boats rolling, and it can drive you 'round the bend pretty quickly. A month of that would institutionalize most folks.

Hard on the boat too...

Jim

Very hard on the boat. The two times I have broken gaffs were in calm conditions with swell. The second time we were hit by a force 11 a few hours later and boy I was glad I had a ketch then. After a few days in heavy weather we could limp into port under jib, staysail and mizzen. Of course, we had fished the gaff, but not sure it would have taken the strain.

And it is still harder on the crew I prefer a reasonable gale to a swelly calm at any time.

[CptCrunchie]

Originally Posted by DumnMad

Yep Like our widely travelled(33 years) friends on 'Quais Quais' who took 4 months to get from Durban to Nelson, NZ on 10m LOD.
Didn't use fuel, and they and their boat were OK rounding the bottom of Australia without landing to save on OZ landing costs. Then from Nelson, NZ to Vancouver with 1 stopover at Wallace & Fortuna.
They were careful in choosing their seasons but some cruisers are quite comfortable with the challenges of taking their home off-shore.

That would be me also. My fav times on any boat has never been at anchor.

[CptCrunchie]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I gotta wonder if you have ever been becalmed at sea? Even when there is little wind, there is usually enough swell to get most boats rolling, and it can drive you 'round the bend pretty quickly. A month of that would institutionalize most folks.

Hard on the boat too...

Jim

Only for 2 days, but I understand what you are saying. There was no swell, just flat, like glass, slight tidal current, 100 miles straight west of Catalina Island. I was volunteer crew with only the owner. 22 days to do a 12 day delivery, Vancouver, BC to San Diego, 200 miles out. It was the only sleep I got the whole trip.

[Capt. Arnaud]

Originally Posted by NoShoes

Serendipitous that you speak of this today, as I was resting back on my push pit pondering the idea of extending my bow sprit out 8 feet and setting up a head sail at the end of the bowsprit followed by a staysail at the bow., on a 35ft cheoy lee.....can I go a genoa. + 2 staysails forward of the main?

I am planning to extend my bowsprit too. My mizzen mast is far aft but still big so the sailplan could use some more pressure on the bow.
The problem is that there is a time they build boats with classic looks (80s) of old rigging plans but modifying them by shortening the bowsprit to pay less in the harbors, putting on roll reef systems with a big genoa to "make up for it"
The problem is that you now have a boat what is not effective at all to sail upwind because of the big genoa and you make it worse trying to furl it. (new furling sails are a little better than the original ones)
So to make my sailplan more effective again I have to extend the bowsprit again to original plans and have more than 2 foresails and take those roller furlings back off.
I know a lot off people like the current setup on my boat as it is because the ease of use but I have to look at upwind performance, not to race but to get somewhere and back. For example when I sail from Ecuador to Panama my average is 8 days (usually not a lot of wind in front of Colombia) but coming back takes around 11 days or more.
Ok last time we transported 3 tons of cargo on the way back and had a gale against us and could only make 6nm in the right direction during 36 hours.
That was sailing under staysail, double reefed main and reefed mizzen but if I had another foresail up instead of having to completely roll up that oversized genoa it would pull us better over those waves.

[hpeer]

OK guys, what the hell is ths? It’s about 150’. That’s not a bimini, it’s a bridge deck!

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by hpeer

OK guys, what the hell is ths? It’s about 150’. That’s not a bimini, it’s a bridge deck!

Cutter ketch, ugly as sin! Or rather "Slutter" ketch.

[Jim Cate]

OK guys, what the hell is ths?

It's a status symbol with a nautical theme...

Its owner is saying "my peepee is bigger than your peepee"

I'm soooo impressed!

Jim

[hpeer]

Similar thoughts here. WTF?

[CptCrunchie]

Originally Posted by hpeer

OK guys, what the hell is ths? It’s about 150’. That’s not a bimini, it’s a bridge deck!

Looks like it doesn't have a mizzen boom, so it being a ketch may be questionable.

But if it does have a boom, that would be a great way to clear the bridge deck of people who piss off the captain.

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by hpeer

OK guys, what the hell is ths? It’s about 150’. That’s not a bimini, it’s a bridge deck!

Fast and great for entertainment - - but a bit expensive for me.

[Bigmarv]

Originally Posted by MartinR

I have sailed cutters, ketches, sloops, schooners. All have their advantages and disadvantages. If the balance between hull and rig is good, the boat will sail well independent. Long keeled boats benefit from a more drawn out sail plan, cutter or ketch are probably better here.

My current boat is a "slutter" ketch. Normally we use the Yankee for reaching and the staysail for beating. Sometimes the staysail is set inside the Yankee, depending on course and wind speed.

The mizzen gives little performance increase to windward, but it is decorative. As soon as you can ease the sheets a little, the mizzen provides drive. It also helps balancing the boat. In stronger winds, most ketches balance well under mizzen and jib/staysail, making for small sails to handle. Also the combination of staysail, reefed main and mizzen works well to windward, as the slot between the main and mizzen is increased.

One more tip: If the sails are too heavy to handle, just put a block at the clew for a 2:1 purchase. Suddenly your 46 winches are 92s and a kid can handle the sail.

And no, the winged keel does not give far more resistance than a deep draft keel, the wet area is about the same. Probably not even measurable.

Martin, I'm interested in knowing more about your current uldb boat. Do you have a blog or similar about the design and construction?

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by CptCrunchie

Point taken. Then how about this. I have no issue with coming into a nice big area of dead calm en route, and spending a month there.

Or spending an extra day or two hove to ....just because. As long as I/we are safe and the boat is in no jeopardy, I have no issue with that.

And I get the whole rogue wave thing, I'm just not concerned about them if we are in deep water.

Personally, I have seen far more damage on boats from people pushing them, than by people taking their time passage making.

With that said, I also prefer to avoid bad weather, and sometimes that means pushing the boat.

I’m with Paul on this one, what you suggest doesn’t seem prudent in any way. Anchorages are places where you hang around and enjoy life on the water. Passages are to be done as quicky as possible in order to avoid dangers that might come up including medical emergencies. I certainly wouldn’t want to be crew on a boat with a skipper who was content just sitting out there.. because he felt like it.

[CptCrunchie]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I’m with Paul on this one, what you suggest doesn’t seem prudent in any way. Anchorages are places where you hang around and enjoy life on the water. Passages are to be done as quicky as possible in order to avoid dangers that might come up including medical emergencies. I certainly wouldn’t want to be crew on a boat with a skipper who was content just sitting out there.. because he felt like it.

All my blue water miles are as crew. So, beyond the numerous books I've read, my captaining experience is limited to observation, and what I saw didn't follow any of the books I've read, even though wee made safe harbor. Thank you for that. I will change my thinking.

*grabs scribbler titled, 'O Captain! My Captain!' and makes notes*