Sailing rules in BVI are applicable?

[Hasbeen]

I don't know about the BVI, but I have a lot of experience in the popular Oz cruising grounds, Sydney harbour & Broken Bay, & the Whitsundays. My experience includes watch keeping officer on destroyers, 20 years & 53000 miles offshore cruising, & 11 years running tourist boats including bare boats. Much of these overlapped.


Sorry to say but it in my experience it is the cruising yachtie who is the worst at obeying the rules here in Oz. Far too many appear to think they are still a sailing boat, when running their engines with sails, & even worse they just don't understand the rules.


So few seem to realise that it is the right of way boat that is restricted in it's movements. It is required to hold it's speed & course until the crossing or overtaking manoeuvre is complete. At one time I was running a number of up to 320 passenger, 30 knot International Catamarans, along with another 10 day trip boats & ferries. It is only because of the diligence of the skippers that they did not run over a number of yachts that suddenly decided to tack when being overtaken by these cats.


As one of my skippers said one day, after a close call, "I am becoming ashamed to admit to being a cruising yachtie". He had many thousands of sailing miles.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Hasbeen

I don't know about the BVI, but I have a lot of experience in the popular Oz cruising grounds, Sydney harbour & Broken Bay, & the Whitsundays. My experience includes watch keeping officer on destroyers, 20 years & 53000 miles offshore cruising, & 11 years running tourist boats including bare boats. Much of these overlapped.


Sorry to say but it in my experience it is the cruising yachtie who is the worst at obeying the rules here in Oz. Far too many appear to think they are still a sailing boat, when running their engines with sails, & even worse they just don't understand the rules.


So few seem to realise that it is the right of way boat that is restricted in it's movements. It is required to hold it's speed & course until the crossing or overtaking manoeuvre is complete. At one time I was running a number of up to 320 passenger, 30 knot International Catamarans, along with another 10 day trip boats & ferries. It is only because of the diligence of the skippers that they did not run over a number of yachts that suddenly decided to tack when being overtaken by these cats.


As one of my skippers said one day, after a close call, "I am becoming ashamed to admit to being a cruising yachtie". He had many thousands of sailing miles.

While I have seen far too many ignorant and unwary sailors in Oz, I wonder how you are discerning the distinction between "cruising yotties" and weekenders and charterers? In my years of experience in Australian waters, including both the Harbour and the Whitsundays, I've found the latter two groups far more likely to make non-compliant maneuvers than real cruisers. Perhaps I'm prejudiced and perhaps you are right... I dunno!

Now, as to your 30 knot ferry having close calls with a suddenly tacking yacht... seems to me that when overtaking at such speeds and speed differentials it ill behooves the ferry skipper to be close enough to a sailing boat to be discomfited by an unexpected tack. After all, sudden wind shifts can make such maneuvers necessary in the normal practice of sailing and your skippers should surely be aware of that and allow adequate clearance when overtaking.

Not that I am recommending sudden maneuvers when in proximity to other vessels, but I think that your close calls have shared responsibilities between yottie and ferry master and it isn't solely the WAFI at fault.

Jim

[Sojourner]

I have to be the most chickens**t captain of them all... I stand down to most any vessel. I'm not in a hurry and I don't need the stress of wondering about their skills or knowledge or alertness...I'm sailing my entire home and life, partners and 3 cats. I'm not playing chicken with a weekend warrior, right or wrong, full stop.

[Hasbeen]

Yes Jim Cate, the professionals are not always so professional. I had a mate who's yacht was rammed & sunk on Sydney Harbour by a ferry, while totally becalmed. The professional did have alcohol involved.


However I can assure you we skippers knew all the bare boats available for charter in the Whitsundays by sight, & usually recognised any privately owned local boats. I did mention I ran a bare boat fleet, & found the charterers very careful of fast motor vessels, usually being a little intimidated by them. About the only problem I had with them was flat batteries, & the inability to start a diesel with the crank handle.


I am here including the one trip "up the reef" from Sydney or Brisbane in the cruising yachtie group. After a thousand miles they should be getting some idea, & not be acting like new chums.

[InTheDish]

We are anchored in Sand Key as I write this. Yesterday a charter boat dropped their hook about a foot from ours....they, luckily, thought a scope of 1:1 was acceptable. I asked them if they were here for the night, the skipper wanted to know why it was any of my business.
They left, we all slept well.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by ed91e

We are currently experiencing sailing in the Caribbean for the first time. Absolutely wonderful in all ways.
But it seems that no one is aware of any sailing rules and who should give way. Back in Sweden where I learned to sail it is often very tight and rarely there are any doubts. Here it seems like the Wild West, especially with the US flagged boats.

Funny, we notice most stupid rules of the road violations are French boats. This includes the moron who clobbered us on our mooring in Bonaire, and the guy who rammed our friend’s boat at anchor in Mareau. We were almost struck in open ocean by a boat traveling at night with no lights or AIS. Less than half a boat length crossing our bow. Another French boat crossed our bow in daylight with no watch and autopilot. Also very close. Also conspicuous is the failure to carry PFDs or lights on a dinghy. Stay on your toes.

[Flagman101]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

Funny, we notice most stupid rules of the road violations are French boats. This includes the moron who clobbered us on our mooring in Bonaire, and the guy who rammed our friend’s boat at anchor in Mareau. We were almost struck in open ocean by a boat traveling at night with no lights or AIS. Less than half a boat length crossing our bow. Another French boat crossed our bow in daylight with no watch and autopilot. Also very close. Also conspicuous is the failure to carry PFDs or lights on a dinghy. Stay on your toes.

Maybe there is a french flag on the boat but it can be africans sailing the thing.

For the 2 boats that crossed your bow on open water. Did you see them coming?

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Flagman101

Maybe there is a french flag on the boat but it can be africans sailing the thing.

For the 2 boats that crossed your bow on open water. Did you see them coming?

Daylight boat, Yes. We were impressed by his brazen behavior

The night crossing, No. I am sure he did not see us, our lights, our AIS. We suspected possibly stolen vessel. We hailed the French CG.

[Flagman101]

My questions was did you see them coming your way?

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Hasbeen

I don't know about the BVI, but I have a lot of experience in the popular Oz cruising grounds, Sydney harbour & Broken Bay, & the Whitsundays. My experience includes watch keeping officer on destroyers, 20 years & 53000 miles offshore cruising, & 11 years running tourist boats including bare boats. Much of these overlapped.


Sorry to say but it in my experience it is the cruising yachtie who is the worst at obeying the rules here in Oz. Far too many appear to think they are still a sailing boat, when running their engines with sails, & even worse they just don't understand the rules.


So few seem to realise that it is the right of way boat that is restricted in it's movements. It is required to hold it's speed & course until the crossing or overtaking manoeuvre is complete. At one time I was running a number of up to 320 passenger, 30 knot International Catamarans, along with another 10 day trip boats & ferries. It is only because of the diligence of the skippers that they did not run over a number of yachts that suddenly decided to tack when being overtaken by these cats.


As one of my skippers said one day, after a close call, "I am becoming ashamed to admit to being a cruising yachtie". He had many thousands of sailing miles.

Large ships can be remarkably nimble as to adjusting course so as to give way when sailboats keep changing their tacks, example thereof:

[Lihuedooley77]

Looks like the carrier ( bird farm ) is snake waking or zig zagging to avoid enemy subs.

Also, an Aircraft Carrier , launching and recovering air craft, totally has the right
of way, as she is restricted in maneuverabilty .

Appears that the carriers wake shows she was zig zagging at pre determined
intervals, and not avoiding sailboats that were changing course.

As to being over taken by VLCC's entering a harbor, and we were undersail and being
overtaken at the channel entrance we would make an early and ample turn to
stand clear of her course.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Lihuedooley77

Looks like the carrier ( bird farm ) is snake waking or zig zagging to avoid enemy subs.

Also, an Aircraft Carrier , launching and recovering air craft, totally has the right
of way, as she is restricted in maneuverabilty .

Appears that the carriers wake shows she was zig zagging at pre determined
intervals, and not avoiding sailboats that were changing course.

As to being over taken by VLCC's entering a harbor, and we were undersail and being
overtaken at the channel entrance we would make an early and ample turn to
stand clear of her course.

Poe's law.

FYI. I was being tongue in cheek with my previous posting. :-)

Ah, well aircraft carriers and sailboats on a close reach share the same issue as to a shift in the wind could dictate the necessity for a change in said vessel's course. The sail boat limited by the angle of the apparent wind and the aircraft carrier desiring to head into the wind so as to avail the best speed of oncoming air for the planes that are taking off and landing.

Per Colregs, the aircraft carrier would need to display day signals [ball - diamond - ball] or night signals to indicate its status of being restricted in its ability to maneuver if it desires to claim such to other vessels, which is their norm. No such day signals present in the photo of the aircraft carrier performing the S curves but the display of the day signals are readily apparent in photos of planes and helicopters coming into to land on the deck, such as the image below.

But as you say, maybe they are just giving way to a bunch of submerged submarines that are crossing the bow of the ship, either that or they have a drunken sailor at the helm. Or maybe they are just pulling a water skier through a slalom course or giving some crew members some R & R by pulling them through the wake on a floating tube.

[a64pilot]

The C-17 is hokey of course, but this is real
https://assets.rebelmouse.io/eyJhbGc...MAK_TA/img.gif

[dfelsent]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

The C-17 is hokey of course, but this is real
https://assets.rebelmouse.io/eyJhbGc...MAK_TA/img.gif

Whoa looks as if the wingtips almost touch the deck!

[Zanshin]

I'm now on my 4th boat, all of them stored in the BVI during hurricane season and sailed there upon launch and before storage. The BVI is a really a unique location with the majority of charter boats skippered by guests whose sailing resumes are somewhat inflated and who are what we call "credit card captains".

I'm a German and usually am very careful about adhering to the COLREGs. I not only use an anchor ball all the time, I'll even put up an inverted cone when motorsailing But my philosophy, borne from experience, in the BVI is that if it has a white hull, a Moorings or Sunsail logo visible or flying a pirate flag then I am the give-way vessel and will alter course as soon as a possible collision is detected so that there is no question of the other boat having to alter course. If the other boat has a non-white hull color or a wind-generator then I'll apply the COLREGs as they were intended...

I've seen some incredible antics over the years in the Caribbean, but the majority of idiotic and dangerous maneuvers were in the BVI and involved a charter boat.

I always keep in mind that in the case of a collision or accident an international tribunal will always find me at least partially at fault so there's no upside to waiting for the last second to apply Rule 8...