Sail Wear Maintenance

[sailingmonika]

Sailors, we could use some advice on our sail maintenance.

Our sailboat is a 2014 model year Jeanneau 509 with a inmast Main. It is only used for 6 months of the year in New England and was not even launched for 2 years (no sails up either) before we purchased it. Sails have been cleaned each year. Our marina which tends to be overly aggressive with services (and of course they have a motive with a 20% M/U) has recommended fixing some things on the sails. We did not really notice much wear on the suncover for the jib, nor on the main clew UV cover, which still looked pretty good in our view when the boat was hauled this fall, just seemed like some normal wear. No rips, some a little rough edges that’s all. The suggestion on the RF main sail to help the shape makes sense as it does stretch over time and does get stuck when hauled out at times.



From your experience, any insight into whether this stuff makes sense would be appreciated.


Thanks


Marina Quote

RF main , clew UV cover,
Is the same age and material as the genoas.
It’s is degraded. If the new suncover option is chosen for the Genoa. This is the estimate to replace the mains UV clew cover in the same manner.

$987.38

RF main sail ,
Some thoughts on helping the over all shape and furleability.

Remove bulk from head and tack straps. Replace with less over all bulk .
Add stitching to head and tack patch’s parallel to luff . This will help sails layers not “ shift “ as the furling process starts.

Refaire the upper 1/3-1/2 of the leech . This will also drop the sails hoist by a few inches.

In its current shape it has a pronounced positive “ lump “
Typically this type of misshaped curve can cause and extra fold of fabric , sticking and jamming could be attributed to these 3 factors.

$910

UV suncover is shot . Torn and degraded in its current state.
Remove old cover , install new sunbrella cover . Color can be chosen at a later date.
Replace straps , webbing , cleat , cleat cover as needed.

$2458.66

[psk125]

Is this a marina or a sailmaker offering to do this? Was not aware that marinas worked on sails. Usually a sailmaker, not a marina, would handle this. Is the marina working with a sailmaker (and, as you suggest, getting a cut, kickback, or markup)? It would make sense to talk with a sailmaker. European boats often come with somewhat mediocre sails, but if yours have only had five years of use they should still be serviceable, and not need thousands of dollars of "repairs". The marina could also simply be going by the age of the boat and guessing at what needs work. Contact a local sailmaker not affilliated with your marina and have them take a look.

[wholybee]

Sunbrella fabric will lose it's UV protection after 5-7 years, even it the fabric otherwise looks fine. So changing a sail cover should be a scheduled maintenance item. I would discuss with a sailmaker, not a marina.

[Tsuru]

In March 2023 we had our furling main cleaned and some UV damage repaired at North Sails in Seattle. Cleaning was the bulk of the repair price at about $700 and the total cost out the door was $917. The repair consisted of some restitching on a batten pocket and the bottom 3rd Dacron tape leach cover, replaced due to UV damage. Since the cleaning was a separate company I paid North a bit over $200.
The sail was in otherwise good condition and the North sailmaker confirmed no other work was needed. Note that our sails are 3Di laminated Dacron that has proven to be very durable (albeit expensive).
At the time our 2019 sails had about 15,000 sea miles, mostly in the tropics. Note that on furling masts, most of the sail is UV shielded by the mast when not in use. Only a tiny bit of our sail has a UV cover.
That said the cover on our Genoa UV cover is fine, but we had the clew ring repaired in Raiatea due to UV exposure. The price was 27,000XPF or $250 USD in the summer of 2022.

IMHO recutting a furling main due to stretch is a waste of time. If the material has degraded enough to permanently stretch, it’s done for. You’ll get another season (maybe) from a recut. One of the keys to making a furling main trouble free is a good flat, stretch resistant main. I would not be opposed to recutting a regular main, but not a furling main.

If it was me I’d start by calling a good local loft. For me it would be North, in your area it will probably be different. Doesn’t matter who, just a good reliable loft.

Get a quote of a new Dacron main and genoa. It will take a couple days but they will get back to you. Then get a quote from a good discount loft. I’ve used National Sails in the past and was impressed by their quality and price. Who you use is up to you, what material you end up using is up to you, but now you have an Apples to Apples starting place to determine repair costs against the cost of a new sail. Both Dirk at National sails and Jack at North Seattle are reputable people and will teach you a lot about sails. Again, I’m not suggesting either company but I do suggest that you develop a relationship with a sail company and deal with them directly.

My gut feel is that your sails are at end of life ,and you should consider replacment. Again this is only my opinion but your main is done and it may be a better investment to put that repair budget into new sails.

Good luck and best regards,
Ray

[sailingmonika]

Thanks, the marina brings them to a sail maker and has a 5% mark-up. I'm pretty sure it is North Sails as we keep our boat on the Mystic River in CT and they are local there. Since our boat is a 2014 and now has 10 years on the sails I am wondering how much more life we have in them. The repairs/maintenance as they recommended is about $5k with tax.

[sailingmonika]

Thanks, I like the idea of comparing new sails cost vs the repairs/maintenance which is almost $5k. Any idea what the general life of a sail is for a production boat like a Jeanneau? We bought the boat used and I think the sails were the standard production ones.

[sailingmonika]

It sound like the jib UV replacement makes sense given the 5-7 year average. Thanks.

[donradcliffe]

Many times the sunbrella cover just needs restitching, because the thread fails before the material. Get them to use Tenara thread, which will last as long as the sunbrella. All those prices seem high by 50% or more.

[Tsuru]

Originally Posted by sailingmonika

Thanks, I like the idea of comparing new sails cost vs the repairs/maintenance which is almost $5k. Any idea what the general life of a sail is for a production boat like a Jeanneau? We bought the boat used and I think the sails were the standard production ones.

That was one of the points I was trying to make. I doubt if I would do a $5K repair on a $10k set of old sails. The other point was that you need to speak directly to the loft. The sail loft people are very good and can help you make a better decision. They also may offer other services like pickup, delivery, and help you tune the sails.

[JPA Cate]

If the sails are dacron, they're done. Big boats generate big forces, and dacron isn't strong enough. When we replaced our mainsail, non-furling, on our boat, we were told if it were made of dacron, it would probably only hold shape for 4 yrs.

You really need to talk to your local loft, and have them talk you through what they have to offer that will work with your furling system if you want to keep it. [There are some practical arguments for slab reefing, which you could discuss with them. Partly, such decisions depend upon how you want to use the boat.]

As to the UV protection, there are other possibilities than Sunbrella, other acrylic canvases, that you might be able to source less expensively than the Sunbrella brand, which has continued to increase in cost. The West Germans make a quality acrylic fabric for the purpose. There are other fabrics than acrylic canvas, too, but they have less longevity, and of course the labor costs for replacement.

Ann

[psk125]

Agree with Ann that the sails are probably not holding their shape very well. On the other hand, do you need to have exquisitely shaped airfoils worthy of an America's Cup foiler? We have some Dacron sails from 1996 that, while they may not be race-ready are still serviceable and useful for just cruising around. People routinely put thousands of miles on a set of sails leaving them up day and night for weeks at a time. It would be difficult to imagine that yours have been used that much. Ask the North guy and another local sailmaker or two to come by and have a look. This is a situation that calls for more input than you've gotten so far.

[donradcliffe]

Invite your sailmaker out for a sail, or send him pictures of the sail shape under load. He can tell you in 10 minutes whether the sails are worth maintaining or should be Given the age, but limited use, its hard to tell whether full replacement is warranted, but furling mains definitely don't last as long.

[Jim Cate]

Remember that mass produced boats usually have mass produced sails, and those are often not made from the very best sail cloth. This might tilt your decision away from repair... it would for me! You will likely be quite amazed at the improvement in upwind performance with a new sail!

Jim