Ketch or Sloop for Caribbean and ocean crossing ?

[MikeDofFreo]

One other virtue of a ketch.: balance and, therefore, safety.

I have never lost the use of a rudder on a ketch but I did on a two masted schooner. The ability to balance the direction, from having 2 mast was great. Even tacking was simple (back the main , or mizzen in the case of a ketch, and ease the jib: when head to wind back the jib on the new tack and trim the main, ten trim the jib on the new tack). Sailed 300 miles to windward in gale force conditions. Much better than jury rigged rudder.

[LAGO]

A scrap of mizzen sail can work well as a riding sail at anchor on some boats.

[HankOnthewater]

I owned both types and sailed sloops as large as 53 ft and ketches from 31 (Tahiti) to 60 ft (Pugh).
I would agree with most previous comments, and post #14 sums it up. Ketches under 40 ft do not make sense anymore and possibly even under 45 ft. Above that (arbitrary size)..... maybe.
The Amel brand of boats used to be the epitome of the cruising ketch, but the last few years even they have changed their designs from ketch to a sloop rig, with cutter being an option. Obviously the current boat market wants sloops, or/and costs to produce ketches may be bigger, and the factory can be more profitable producing sloops?

Small mizzens... do not make much sense either except as an expensive riding sail at anchor. On bigger boats the size of mizzen is coming close to the size of main sail, see Sundeer (but I have never sailed one of these). See photo borrowed from the net.
And if a bigger mizzen is better..... why stop there, consider a schooner rig, even more old fashioned

Lastly, and still on rigs, if you want 2 masts, then there is always the simplicity of a cat-ketch..... or do you have now too many options?

BTW I have currently a ketch, with a solent rig up on the pointy end.

[Greg K]

Neither.

Once you've sailed a true cutter
you'll never go back to another

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

A few things to consider
Any sail can be damaged, if you only have 2 you are stuffed!
It is faster and easier to drop a sail on the deck in a squall especially at night. with a ketch you drop the main and are immediately in 'heavy weather mode'
If anything is going to jam or break it will probably be at night in a squall (sods law but also engineering logic) Jammed reefing gear at night is no joke!
Ina race a ketch will not beat a sloop upwind all else being equal, does that matter to you?
The bigger the boat the more a ketch makes sense but what the critical size is is opinion. I am sure there is a point where 2 smaller masts and sails actually becomes cheaper. For example if you need power winches for the sloop but are fine with hand ones for the ketch.

I've owned both, and while for all the reasons stated for a Ketch, I really miss my sloop.
Things just move slower on a Ketch, and they seem more stabile in Heavy Weather.
Drop the Main and keep on sailing is how you reef on those boats (variables excepted).
The biggest draw back for me is packing a good inventory of sail.
I currently run, 3 different Asymmetrical Spinnakers. Lite, Medium, Heavy, you want the weights I'll give those if you want.
I use a Dousing Chute for single handing, not needed with a partner, but easier.
Have 1 mainsail, 4 working sails, 1 storm sail,Trysail, and Mizzen.
I have 2 tracks on the Mainmast, for Staysail deployment.
The Boats a 32 ft, 36 overall.
Sail storages usually end up on the combing. And are tied down.
Comfortable interior, 10ft beam.
Cockpit is relatively small and steering is mounted on the transom, so lots of room to move around.
Learning to sail for speed is on going, and can be a challenge, so big sails help, reaching, A Sails, do nicely.
You want agility, long keels are different, but I've never had a problem Tacking, Gybing, with enough speed.
The quick agile sailing racing, I would want the sloop, as well pointing.
But, I do LOVE the Ketch.
SV Cloud Duster

[MicHughV]

In my younger years I sailed a ketch for nigh on 15 years.
I particularly chose the ketch rig for a variety of reasons, including the most important one in that I thought it looked "cool"...but...

I also had this weird notion, that if I should ever loose the main mast while on an ocean crossing, I could remove the mizzen mast and re-position it where the main stood and made a jury rig to get me home.

I never used a triatic stay between the main and mizzen for this reason, so as to keep them separate.

I'm happy to say that I never had to test out this theory

The mizzen on my boat was small and light enough to be " manhandled". It was the " spare" for the main.

I often sailed downwind with only a spinnaker and mizzen staysail....this kept the main and mizzen of the stays...

And finally, at anchor, I was able to rig up an awning, using the mizzen and main as my " tent poles"....

so there you go....

[ilenart]

have owned both, a 45ft ketch and now a 40ft sloop. The mizzan was really a waste of time, probably only used 20% of the time. Upwind and downwind was better off without it. Only really worked reaching. In theory the mizzan could be used in heavy weather however I found I always used the reefed main and staysail in snotty weather. Big reason I went for the sloop was the improved performance. Depending on the direction the best I could get from a ketch was about 80-85% of a sloop’s performance.

For a 40ft yacht I would stick with a sloop. Above 50ft I would start thinking about a ketch, depending on the design.

Ilenart

[Jubilee39]

Sailed the Caribbean for 10 years with my ketch, great rig for going up and down the eastern island chain. Crossing the Pacific all down wind not so much. The mizzen rarely got used. I have seen boats try to use a mizzen with a cruising chute, always had too much helm.
Still the mizzen is good to mount radar and wind generator. Easy to balance for wind vane steering

[Svsumurun]

Not a CC , but have a look at the Pearson 424 - the big sister to my boat. Huge cockpits for the size of boat , built like a brick sh((::,,;(,; .
When Bill Shaw designed the 365/424 , he said that was 'his' boat, the one he would want .
With their age , the prices are reasonable and there is lots out there that are setup to cruise already .

[MicHughV]

Food for thought...

On my ketch rigged boat, while on a downwind ocean passage, I would push out the mizzen boom to the opposite side of the main spinnaker pole, with a block on the end to which was attached the clew of the mizzen staysail, in affect using the mizzen boom as a spinnaker pole of sorts. The tack of the mizzen staysail was brought across the boat and led to a block on the rail.

The main spinnaker was set flying in the normal manner.

The boomed out mizzen staysail in effect closed up the gap underneath the main spinnaker, as the main spinnaker would fly quite high.

Neither the main nor mizzen would be hoisted at this time and both the staysail and main spinnaker had pretty clean airflow, and without the main or mizzen up, didn't have the habit of collapsing when a wave would cause the boat to slew around a bit, disrupting air flow.

This setup worked dead down wind or on a broad reach with appropriate trimming of the pole/boom.

On my old boat, I never experienced any abnormal helm behavior while sailing in this manner.

A lot of cruisers don't like flying a spinnaker because it is usually an untamed beast out in front of the boat, but I can't say I ever experienced any undue problems and was a frequent user of this sail.

I have not sailed on other ketches, so can't say if this would work across the board.

Modern boats favor the " poleless" spinnaker's or so called "code zero" sails.

I miss my old ketch :-(

[barnakiel]

It is irrelevant. Simply get a boat that you like. A boat that fuels the dream.



WHAT is irrelevant? The rig is. Let's not mistake the finger for the moon.



There are some things about a ketch that are very fine in the Caribbean - like how easy it is to deploy a riding sail or set up a cockpit awning. I have seen wind generators mounted atop mizzen masts too - they seemed to work quite well up there!


A ketch ketches an eye too - good thing to lure a romantic partner, or spot your own boat, anchored among one thousand of identical, white, plastic, sloops!



Get a boat that you like. Using the mizzen sail, any sail ..., is optional ;-)


PS I would love a ketch. I would actually love a yawl twice as much.


https://asa.com/news/2015/09/08/what...-rig-the-yawl/



b.

[MicHughV]

too true....

back in the day, when I was still young and boatless, completely out of the blue, a "Build Your Own Boat" catalog from Bruce Roberts appeared in my parents mailbox one day...completely unannounced and un-invited....

I flipped thru' this catalog and with each page, the size of the boats grew.....untill....there it was..... the Roberts 38 Ketch !

I was smitten, no two ways about it !!!
For the first time in my young life.....I was in love....gaga...head over heels.....I didn't know a ketch rig from a stick in the ground...but this beautiful thing with those twin masts towering to the sky I had to have.

In order to have it, I had to build it, so I did !!

And thus started my 30 year love affair with sailboats and the ocean.

My love affair may not be yours.....ketches, yawls, schooners, sloops, cutters, what does it really matter ? What matters is to get the boat you love !!

[tomfl]

I had been sailing for ten or fifteen years before I started using my Dad's ketch. I really liked how easy it was to balance the boat by adjusting the mizzen; I could get the boat to sail in a straight line like a freight train on tracks. Before that I had only sailed sloops, mostly one designs and had to steer the whole time. Thing is a modern well designed sloop should be able to be balanced as well; problem is there are a lot of not so well designed sloops , and boats in general. I do think to a large extent the mizzen can often substitute for a wind vane and act as a self steering device if you get some experience adjusting it. I have also seen a partially raised mizzen really tame a boat an anchor under adverse conditions.

No question a sloop will out sail a ketch; especially if the crew keeps it's nose to the grindstone. Problem is this whole thing is suppose to be fun, not an exercise in keeping your nose to the grindstone. I always thought a ketch was easier to sail and required less attention than a sloop. On the other hand at times I have been fully engaged in driving the boat as fast as it would go.

All that being said I have a Seawind cat that is sloop rigged and when I play with the traveler and sheets I can get it to track well. Point is either rig in a well designed boat is acceptable. Both have advantages and disadvantages.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

They’re both capable. Depends on what you like.

Our boat, a ketch, was also sold as a cutter. There are days I would kill to have the cutter......other days I’m quite happy to have the ketch.

If you sail from island to island...probably a cutter-rigged sloop is easier. Over ocean distances, I would much prefer a ketch because of the number of "gears" intrinsic to the rig, despite the extra costs of sails and maintenance (time). Sailing "jib and jigger" off the wind is a joy to be experienced if you have the chance.

[SV__Grace]

I have a Nauticat 43 center cockpit ketch/cutter (47 LOA with bowsprit).

If you like center cockpit sailboats, Nauticats are great.

Lots of posts here sharing lots of info, here's my list for you to consider-

1. The sail area of ketches is spread across 3 sails instead of 2, so each sail and mast can be smaller, which translates to easier to handle and maintain.

2. The ketch rig allows for flexibility to adapt to conditions and is better balanced in higher winds. With 2 headsails, even more so.

3. Heaves to like a champ.

4. Mizzen is great riding sail at anchor, just let it out or raise it 50% or so and make it as tight as possible.

5. Not all ketches are equal, I would definitely sail one before buying it. Our sea trial of Grace was in 25 knots winds in SF Bay and was some of the best, most comfortable (comfort is important to the Admiral) sailing I've experienced in 35 years.

6. PO installed a hard top over the center cockpit with a full enclosure and huge solar panels on top. Great feature of our boat that we love.

I hope this helps. Let us know what boat you decide to get!