Im about to do it

[cookingguy]

Ok after a few years of sailing through the sailing club in Chicago, im about to make that jump and buy a sailboat. Im heading out tomorrow on a 6hr journey to go see it in person. The sailboat is a 1984 S2 9.2 C.
I have talked with the current owner a lot and he has answered many of my questions. The owner did give me a copy of a survey that was done in 2013 when he bought the boat. It was a good survey not with any major issues.

These are some one the items/ questions i asked him and have gotten answered. This is a fresh water sailboat that will be sailed on Lake Michigan and the great lake. I do under stand that some of these questions are over kill for a fresh water sailboat, but they were asked and answered to the best of his ability.

My question is, is there anything else you guys can think of that I should ask when I get there to see it? Or just any general advice?



Thank you to all in advance for any advice on this

Cookingguy

(A lot of these questions were found on here from another post, I forgot who it was but thank you for taking the time and posting those)

Tanks
water qty
how many gal
how old
material
Water Tank replaced/ when?
Has there EVER been any issues of osmosis?

fuel
how many gal
how old
material
fuel Tank replaced/ when?
fuel filters qty/type

holding
how many gal
how old
material
Tank replaced/ when?

Batteries
how many
how old
type/size
charger model

Inverter
age/model

Solar Panels
How old/type
controller
age/model

Wind power
How old/model
controller age/model

Motor – Mainly for saltwater boats
last overhaul date
rebuild date
last oil change
what has been replaced within the last 8 years
what has been replaced in the last 1 year
Diesel hours and maintenance?

Sails
make
inventory/ Age and condition of each sail in inventory
when last serviced
whisker pole or spinnaker

Rigging Standing
has it been replaced/when/by who
when was chain plates last replaced or inspected
ever a major rigging failure/when/how
has it ever been rolled over 360 degrees

Winches
when last maintenance
Stanchions all replaced

Bilge pumps
age
has there ever been water above the sole

Stove/Oven
how old are the propane
how old are the propane tanks

Fridge/Freezer
age last maintenance
brand

Hot Water Tank
age/fuel

Cabin Heater
age/fuel

Toilet
model/age
last maintenance
hoses replaced

Wiring
how old
has it been rewired/by who
what type of wire used

Windlass
age/last maintenance

Hull
ever any blistering how corrected if so
what hull maintenance
what anti fouling paint used


Deck base steering post -bow pulpit –
has it been repainted or new gel coat/if so when

Slip
is there a slip available
is it transferable

Misc.
anchors type/qty
rode
will the last owner agree to do several shake down cruises before/after sale completed

Ship Log-
where has it been docked/sailed mostly
can I read the ships logs
can I see repair/equipment receipts

Safety equipment
AIS-
Life raft
Sole owner?
Boat free from debt liens?
Flares?


Misc Questions
1. Has the boat ever sank?
2. How was the boat used? Where has it been? Was the boat used for charters?
3. Why are you selling?
4. How long have you owned the boat?
5. What are upgrades you would do if you were not selling?
6. What do you like best about the boat? Least?
7. Significant events from a mechanical log?
8. Groundings or collisions?
9. Survey available form the past ten years?/ Last Survey done?
10. What equipment on the boat is presently not serviceable?
11. Pictures, how old are they that are online/sent?
12. Any water leaks?
13. When was the stuffing box last repacked?
14. Have/ When have the winches been rebuilt?
15. Any blistering repairs have been done?

[Don C L]

Wow! That's a great list. Some of those can be answered from a little research of the s2, which has a great rep, BTW. It is certainly one I'd consider. There was a smaller one in a video recently getting beat up against a breakwater and it miraculously sails away! (they are built pretty tough.) My only addition might be to ask what kind of stuffing box it has... (my buddy who has been a rigger for 40 years says never get a dripless one) but that certainly wouldn't be a deal breaker if I had to replace it. No keel bolts is a plus in my book too. Personally I scrutinize the rigging, the rudder and the engine the most. Good luck!

[TernEggs]

as well as the tanks as you mention, fuel lines replaced / when

[laika]

I'd be sweatin in my boots if someone asked me all that! If the owner can answer even most of that then I'd say you're in good shape! But if you have any questions after you go see it, hire a surveyor and follow him around asking questions for a day. That will speak volumes about the actual shape of the boat writ large.

[cookingguy]

Thanks for those responses. I did contact the guy who did the survey and he's still in business and said he would be more then happy to come out and do a new one on the boat for 600.00. So I do plan on doing that. That is the boat btw.

Yes I've heard that dripless stuffing boxes aren't good. That was a question I was going to ask when I get there

[Cpt Mark]

I'd add age of the propane hoses as well.

Dripless stuffing boxes. I have been on many boats where they worked flawlessly and others not so much. I just put new shafts on my cat and put in PSS Dripless shaftseals. I hate water in the bilge. My mechanic told me he puts them in all of his boats and never has an issue. He does also say that once they start leaking to just replace it. Around 8-10 years. I'm ok with that.

I had one boat that I installed the earlier version on and it did leak. Mostly because my shaft was pitted so it couldn't get a good seal. Installed correctly they are wonderful. No bilge smell.

[Valmika]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Wow! That's a great list. Some of those can be answered from a little research of the s2, which has a great rep, BTW. It is certainly one I'd consider. There was a smaller one in a video recently getting beat up against a breakwater and it miraculously sails away! (they are built pretty tough.) My only addition might be to ask what kind of stuffing box it has... (my buddy who has been a rigger for 40 years says never get a dripless one) but that certainly wouldn't be a deal breaker if I had to replace it. No keel bolts is a plus in my book too. Personally I scrutinize the rigging, the rudder and the engine the most. Good luck!

I'm curious as to why no dripless shaft seal. I have had both and the only failure I have had was the 1st dripless one I had failed 5 years after I got the boat (used) because I stupidly thought dripless mean maintenance free. Grease that thing once a year and my last one is going on 9 years with no trouble.

[hamburking]

I admire your list of questions.

But my guess is that you'll get 3 questions in, and the answers will have taken 45 minutes each with side stories. And I'm also going to guess that the owner doesn't know the answer to many of your questions.

You are asking him to give you a verbal survey. Better to pay the $600 and get a real survey. The answer to many of your questions really just doesn't matter. What DOES matter is the current condition. For example, it doesn't matter if the standing rig was new last year if it was installed poorly. It doesn't matter if the tanks are new if they leak.

The answer to most of your questions is to just go and see for yourself. Give yourself several hours to go over the boat, and hope the owner allows it.

If it were me, I think $600 for a survey is cheap, especially if it saves you a 6 hour drive. I've done that long drive, just to see that the boat is crap before I even got out of the car. Get the survey first, then if it still looks good to you, drive the 6 hours with cash in your pocket. I'm always surprised at sellers who use 5 year old pictures to sell their boat.

No doubt about it, buying a boat is tough and there is risk. There will be flaws, so don't panic. The trick is to balance the condition of the boat with the price.

One tip...take hundreds of pictures...you will be so glad to have them the next day. The camera will see many things you cannot. Stick the camera in holes and lockers...behind the engine, behind the electrical panel...these shots are gold!

Good luck, and please let us know how it goes!

[CMO Tashina]

Does it have the four or five foot draft? May or may not make a difference where you are planning on sailing.

[flyingfin]

Dont piss away $600 right away.
Step One - check NADA value
Step Two - go see the boat
Step Three - while looking over the vessel, ask Owner to run motor. You dont want a sea trial, just let it idle for 20 minutes while you look her over. If engine doesnt overheat, put it in F and R and make sure tranny works
Step Four - take your shoes off and walk the deck on your heels, feeling for soft spots
Step Five - If you still are interested, call 2 surveyors and get quotes for a survey

Remember, you are buying a boat that probably has the original engine and is a fully depreciated asset. Assuming it drops dead, the high side is that you will need to spend $12K to replace it. Govern yourself accordingly!

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Valmika

I'm curious as to why no dripless shaft seal. I have had both and the only failure I have had was the 1st dripless one I had failed 5 years after I got the boat (used) because I stupidly thought dripless mean maintenance free. Grease that thing once a year and my last one is going on 9 years with no trouble.

I have not owned or sailed a boat with a DSS but my understanding is that depending on the make and/or maintenance (or lack thereof) when a DSS fails it does so catastrophically causing flooding. There was a boat in San Diego that sank recently and it was attributed to that, I read. Here is just one reference:
https://www.passagemaker.com/technic...ss-shaft-seals
as I said though, I would not consider it a deal-breaker. If it has one, it is one more thing to ask about the maintenance on.

[Valmika]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I have not owned or sailed a boat with a DSS but my understanding is that depending on the make and/or maintenance (or lack thereof) when a DSS fails it does so catastrophically causing flooding. There was a boat in San Diego that sank recently and it was attributed to that, I read. Here is just one reference:
https://www.passagemaker.com/technic...ss-shaft-seals
as I said though, I would not consider it a deal-breaker. If it has one, it is one more thing to ask about the maintenance on.

Thanks!! That is a great link. Mine on the Beneteau is a volvo DSS. It has internal lips that need to be greased about once a year (I found out too late) The new one I grease about every six months or so. On the Nordlund I am not sure but they looked like PSS types. The boat had over 1500 HP total and in the 400 or so hours I was captain on it I don't believe the owner did any maintenance on them. (everything else though he spent a small fortune) I did always check them as part of a pre float inspection before even the shortest trip. This is the same with the Marquesas

[rosatte]

Get a new survey a lot can happen in five years

[Lihuedooley77]

Good job.....

Just a fun tale. Years back in the Newport Sailing Club (Ca.), a very nice couple purchased a brand new S2. Excellent vessel.

They also had a BMW car, and found that the S2 was as smooth as the BMW, so they named it SEA BEAMER...... They loved their new boat.

Well, we in the sailing club would rename boats with a bit a mischief included.

There were stowage lockers on each quarter, so their precious Sea Beamer, became known as SADDLE BAGS. All in good fun. The actual name and hailing port did not change.

She was a great and popular boat, as they had it on lease back with the club.

Good choice, and we go along with a thorough survey, and you actually being there on site.

[cookingguy]

Once again, Thank you all so much for your responses, they have been very helpful and I hope this also helps other people with their purchases. The boat is on the hard right now, so starting it couldn't be done and it was shrink wrapped so truly walking the deck couldn't be done, but i was on my hands and knees on the deck. The pictures that were in the ad we all taken last year. The boat has a 4' 11" draft and will be sailing mainly Lake Michigan, but also the other great lakes. The owner and I did talk on the phone for a few hours/ times before I drove up. I did feel comfortable with him and the way he answered the questions. He has all the maintenance records for the work that he had done at the marina, he had the marina do all oil changes and repairs needed. The boat looked in great shape, he did care for it.

The stove is an alcohol stove. I did check the NADA and it said 17040-19290. So I made an offer after back and forth, we settled on 19250 pending survey and sea trials.


This is the listing to the boat if anyone wanted to check it out.
1984 S2 9.2C sailboat for sale in Michigan