How seriously is the 2M dumping policy enforced? (Yet another poo question)

[pkrawetzky]

This is why states like GA are enacting laws to prohibit anchoring along the coastline even though it's only "perceived" dumping overboard is happening. Do us all a favor a just go to a pumpout station. Is it really that hard? If it is maybe you shouldn't be boating.

If your bilge fills up with fuel, do you just dump that overboard as well?

[JordanH]

I take these Y-valve threads far less seriously after reading this...


8-billion litres of sewage dumped into the St. Lawrence. Your additional deposit isn't going to make much difference.



https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/city-to-begin-massive-sewage-
dump-wednesday

[uncledom]

Originally Posted by jholovacs

When I bought my first sailboat from an old-salt Canadian last year, he was methodically going over the systems with me, educating me with his decades of accumulated sailing experience. When we got to the heads/ holding tanks/ macerator systems, he told me-- very matter-of-factly, as he knew it was my first sailboat-- that you're not allowed to dump in US Territorial waters, but "nobody I know ever takes that rule seriously", going so far as to give me instructions on how to do it on the DL while cruising down the ICW, also showing me how to default the y-valve for the port to "off" in case I ever got boarded by the Coast Guard... I guess the CG can give you a ticket if your system is "dump-ready"?

Naturally, I took this with a grain of salt, but it's also the first boat I've owned that had actual toilets where this was a possible thing to do. At the time, I just made a mental note and we continued on through the orientation.

I've now had my boat for a year, and I've been working on getting it set up the way I want it to be (electronics, wiring, batteries, solar, rigging, etc...) and I'm anticipating being able to get out of the marina and putting it on the hook long-term nearer my home, where I'd go out for regular weekend trips, and will no longer have convenient pumpout services available to me... now sewage management is suddenly something I need to consider carefully, and his words are coming back to mind.

Is he right? Deluded? A threat to society? Is it actually a big deal? There's some scary laws around high fines and the whatnot, but I've also never heard of the "Poo Police" running around issuing tickets or pressing charges. It's gross, but lots of animals do their business in the water all the time, so it doesn't seem like it's a big deal. What's the real story here?

I'd be happy to send your thoughts on the matter to the local constabulary and USCG station and they can answer your questions directly. Your boat isn't too hard to recognize with that hard dodger and the registration number clearly visible in your avatar. BTW it's three nautical miles from shore and I don't really care what type of burden it is for you or anyone else it's a simple rule (law) to follow. If it's too much just sell the boat. Next thing you'll tell me is that you don't signal when passing cause that's too hard also.

[earlyviking]

Install a composting toilet?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by JordanH

I take these Y-valve threads far less seriously after reading this...

8-billion litres of sewage dumped into the St. Lawrence. Your additional deposit isn't going to make much difference.

https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/city-to-begin-massive-sewage-
dump-wednesday

... it was a one-time dump necessitated by maintenance. Also, it's 8b liters of everything - sewage + flushwater, any sink-water, washing-machine and dishwasher draining, etc. It wasn't 8b liters of human waste.

Independent scientists hired by the federal government, as well as local water treatment experts, backed the city’s assertion that the risk of waiting and suffering an unplanned breakdown in equipment leading to a sewage overflow was worse than dumping sewage into the river, and it would have little effect on the river’s fish population.

Of course a single dump in tidewater from ONE cruiser is inconsequential. If every boat at a crowded weekend beach, marina or anchorage dumps freely, you gotta problem. That's who the law is aimed at.

[JBsurfin]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Number 1, it's illegal.

Number 2, it's nasty and very unhealthy for anything in the water nearby.

Why don't you get in the water while you are dumping that crap say in the narrow ICW between Pensacola and Ft Walton Beach.

Swim around in it a bit and make sure it's spread out evenly

Better yet, dump it in your back yard.

Well, we know of one boater that thinks its ok to dump crap in the waters..

[JBsurfin]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

... it was a one-time dump necessitated by maintenance. Also, it's 8b liters of everything - sewage + flushwater, any sink-water, washing-machine and dishwasher draining, etc. It wasn't 8b liters of human waste.

Of course a single dump in tidewater from ONE cruiser is inconsequential. If every boat at a crowded weekend beach, marina or anchorage dumps freely, you gotta problem. That's who the law is aimed at.

I love to read post where people will try to justify the breaking of a law.. Gotta wonder, do they also justify running a stop sign, or red light, driving in the left lane, no lights when the wipers are on..etc.. Maybe they think they are special?

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Dangerous levels of fecal waste in some Fort Lauderdale waterways
“... The city warned people against jet-skiing, paddle-boarding, kayaking and other water-related activities in a number of waterways polluted by sewer pipe breaks that dumped 126 million gallons of sewage into waterways and streets in December.
But private testing has shown that at least one waterway not tested by the city also had — and continues to have — dangerous levels of fecal matter that can lead to viral and bacterial infections, Hepatitis A and parasites. ..”

More ➥ https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/b...n4a-story.html

Ft. Lauderdale is just one community; you'll find instances of spills (whether from broken pipes or some other mechanism) all along the FL coast, and, I'd expect, nearly any US coastline where there are population centers large enough to have sewage treatment plants.

Then you have all the agricultural runoff, and ground water from septic systems where there AREN'T sewage treatment systems...

That said, I have a numbered tag on my to-tank Y and closed through hull. The only time I've been dyed, there was nothing overboard

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by earlyviking

Install a composting toilet?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by JBsurfin

I love to read post where people will try to justify the breaking of a law.. Gotta wonder, do they also justify running a stop sign, or red light, driving in the left lane, no lights when the wipers are on..etc.. Maybe they think they are special?

How about speeding? Walking across the road outside of crosswalk? Fudging on their taxes ...?

[Trawlerman]

What I never see REASONABLY discussed, is the reasons given why properly treated on-board sewage treatment systems are not permissible. Shore based sewage treatment plants treat city waste and then release the effluent into streams, rivers, and often direct into ocean waters. They reduce the waste particle size and destroy all bacteria and pathogens. There are commercially available systems that do this, and I see no truly defensible reason why they are "OK" some places and not in others. I understand the "ICK" factor, but here in the inland waters where I boat about 50% of the time, I have NEVER seen a situation where anyone has been harmed by this technology nor have I seen anyone bitching that they could not swim due to the use of this system. Anyone who says it is not hard to take care of pump-outs clearly has not done much long distance boating. Pump-outs are often few and far between in many areas, and frequently defective, and during periods of below freezing temperatures are frequently "winterized" and thus unavailable for use.

[rick bertram]

I’ve spent my whole life around the ocean. Over the last 25 years I’ve seen more and more signs go up on beaches indicating high bacteria content. This is from human waste, period. The oceans can handle the Manatees, whales, dolphins and fish. The organisms in the oceans are in sync and are currently stretched to the limit. If you’re going to be a boater don’t be lazy. Sail your boat out on the horizons, enjoy the time out there and dump the tank where it’s legal. If not pump it out at a pump station. If you can’t handle that you probably shouldn’t own a boat.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Trawlerman

What I never see REASONABLY discussed, is the reasons given why properly treated on-board sewage treatment systems are not permissible. Shore based sewage treatment plants treat city waste and then release the effluent into streams, rivers, and often direct into ocean waters. They reduce the waste particle size and destroy all bacteria and pathogens. There are commercially available systems that do this, and I see no truly defensible reason why they are "OK" some places and not in others.

Reasons:

1. Because of where. Boaters often congregate in areas of shallow, slack, quiet water. Often that spot is being used for other recreation - kayaks, SUPs, swimmers, etc. Macerated, treated or not, it shouldn't be ok to dump in those areas.
2. It's all well and good to say you have "proper" sewage treatment aboard... how to prove this, and that it's being maintained properly? Annual inspection/test with a sticker? Does LEO now need to be able to tell what type system a boat has and whether it's working correctly?
3. Some legislation - eg some NDZ declarations - are the easiest way to close a Clean Water Act loophole that permits commercial dumping. It means prohibiting everyone (except military of course) from dumping. Not always the right tool, but it does the job til the CWA is amended.

[stephenblitch]

It still stuns me that so many of us are committed to selfishness as a way of life. Basic norms of behavior such as proper disposal of human waste are fundamental to modern human life, living as we do surrounded by other people and a fragile ecosystem. Hepatitis, E. coli, shigellosis, typhoid fever, salmonella, and cholera, plus fungal infections like aspergillis are quite likely to occur where humans are exposed to untreated sewage, including their own. Dead zones the size of states have formed in our deltas from algal blooms and other oxygen-depleting phenomena from the dumping of sewage and other poisons into our formerly-pristine waterways. Enlightened countries have set basic standards for treatment of sewage to minimize risks to humans. We've all seen the one car barreling down the highway spewing huge amounts of noxious and destructive fumes from its tailpipe. That one car can undo the benefits of modern technology in hundreds of cars. Don't be that one car, or that one boater. It's as simple as that.

[rgranger]

You asked the questions "Is he right? Deluded? A threat to society?"

I once chartered a sailboat out of Elizabeth City NC and spent a few days in the Albemarle Sound. The owner of the boat had a similar attitude to your "old salt". He showed me the Mercerator system and didn't even bother to show me how to "avoid" detection. I did not dump and I remember being surprised by his attitude.