How seriously is the 2M dumping policy enforced? (Yet another poo question)

[KenKo]

The argument that municipalities have overflow dumping issues is, to put it very mildly, not a very strong or serious one. My municipality (Pittsburgh PA) for example, is spending a fortune in infrastructure changes (finally!) to reduce that storm induced overflow in our waste treatment. It's hard to remedy due to our old single understreet piping system for storm runoff and sewage. Also, the fact that someone else is violating the law doesn't make it ok for you to do it!

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I don't really want to get into (another) a debate about composters, but since you mention this I wonder if you can point to the relevant links. I've only heard of one location which apparently has limited the use of composters (Annapolis), but when I try to verify even this info I can't find anything about it.

As a happy composte head user, I really do want to know where places might be banning them. This way I'll know to go somewhere else.

Annapolis as you have said and what has become what amounts to my off season home marina. They pump you out at the dock twice monthly as part of your rent, and will do so weekly for a few bucks more if you need it.

In my opinion composters are not that prevalent and sort of fly under the Radar, it’s my belief that most Marina’s if they found out you were dumping in their dumpster, you would be asked to stop, and I’d bet they don’t want you flushing all that peat and or saw dust either, especially if they have a septic tank.

I’ve stayed in Marina’s long term, that we’re full of live aboards, and never, ever saw boats lining up to pump out at the fuel dock. These same Marina’s also usually had a mobile pump out, but the cost was quite high, and you never see them being used.
Which brings us to only two possible conclusions, either people weren’t using the head on the boat, or they were discharging.
You decide what’s most likely.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by landsend

Always thought rat dung/urine was a carrier of disease.

there are some possible issues wrt rats those most at risk are the same that are at Ruidoso for any pathogens
Those with comprised immune systems.
Hence the reason I stated " for the most part "

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I’ve stayed in Marina’s long term, that we’re full of live aboards, and never, ever saw boats lining up to pump out at the fuel dock. These same Marina’s also usually had a mobile pump out, but the cost was quite high, and you never see them being used.
Which brings us to only two possible conclusions, either people weren’t using the head on the boat, or they were discharging.
You decide what’s most likely.

In my limited experience, many if not most people would poop in the marina's facilities, or at their favourite breakfast spot. Saves wear and tear on the boat's systems.

[Hoodsail]

During multi-day sailing trips, I just dole out mandatory anti-diarrheals to the crew....that pretty much keeps the pooping down to once every 3-4 days, sometimes longer depending on diet...I ease up if we get outside the Long Island Sound..."our eyes arent brown, cause we're full of love"..

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

In my limited experience, many if not most people would poop in the marina's facilities, or at their favourite breakfast spot. Saves wear and tear on the boat's systems.

I'm a composter and when in port I always do my doody in the shore side facilities if possible . Urinating well that's what I have a urinal for.

[Knotical]

I can't cite the environmental impact of dumping a 20 gallon sewage tank in coastal waters but considering those waters may be used for swimming, drinking etc. I wouldn't do it. Would you go for a swim at anchor when the boat next to you is dumping its tank?

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by Adelie

1. Marine life feces contains little or nothing that somebody else could become ill from. Human feces on the other hand ....

2. For some pathogens ppm will still make your neighbors ill.

Can you reference some scientific studies that confirm this?

In Santa Cruz, the health department AND the surfers take regular water samples at the beaches. The worst beach for coliform count is usually the one next to the municipal wharf, and it has been that way for generations--I would never let my kids swim there. They have finally made some progress in cleaning it up--by putting netting under the wharf so the pigeons don't roost there. They still haven't dealt with the hundred or so sea lions that hang out under the wharf, because they are a tourist attraction.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Annapolis as you have said and what has become what amounts to my off season home marina. They pump you out at the dock twice monthly as part of your rent, and will do so weekly for a few bucks more if you need it.

That's also what I'd heard, so I went to the Annapolis harbour website and could find nothing on this. I then dug into their extensive regulations and statutes. The best I could find was an oblique reference to using the "consideration" of the use of pump out facilities as grounds for restricting use of their public moorings, although nothing about composters, and no actual directions.

This is why I ask if someone has more direct information. I don't want to be the one to spread unfounded Internet rumours.

Originally Posted by a64pilot

In my opinion composters are not that prevalent and sort of fly under the Radar, it’s my belief that most Marina’s if they found out you were dumping in their dumpster, you would be asked to stop, and I’d bet they don’t want you flushing all that peat and or saw dust either, especially if they have a septic tank.

I bet if marinas knew the contents of a lot of material that gets dumped in their dumpsters, they'd ask people to stop. But yes, I get your point. My view is that composters should only be dumped into landfills when no other option exists. In my nearly ten years of composter use I can count the number of times I've used a dumpster on one hand.

That said, landfills already legally accommodate nastier junk, like soiled diapers or used feminine hygiene products. These are far worse than the dessicated, diluted and partially composted material that comes out of composters. And the volumes of these items far and away exceed the input from composters.

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I’ve stayed in Marina’s long term, that we’re full of live aboards, and never, ever saw boats lining up to pump out at the fuel dock. These same Marina’s also usually had a mobile pump out, but the cost was quite high, and you never see them being used.
Which brings us to only two possible conclusions, either people weren’t using the head on the boat, or they were discharging.
You decide what’s most likely.

I know where my bet would be placed . This is the advantage of a composter; you can use it for long periods without the need for discharge (except the urine, of course ).

My previous marina that we were based out of had no pump out facility. I learned most boats didn't even holding tanks at all, and most boats were in constant use at the dock. There were a few that would go for a weekly spin just outside the marina breakwall. It took me a while to learn this was their "3-mile" run.

[tarian]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Can you reference some scientific studies that confirm this?

In Santa Cruz, the health department AND the surfers take regular water samples at the beaches. The worst beach for coliform count is usually the one next to the municipal wharf, and it has been that way for generations--I would never let my kids swim there. They have finally made some progress in cleaning it up--by putting netting under the wharf so the pigeons don't roost there. They still haven't dealt with the hundred or so sea lions that hang out under the wharf, because they are a tourist attraction.

Coliform is present in large numbers in the faeces of warm-blooded animals, so the pigeons and the sealions will be contributing to the high bacterial count , but this is a colony of sealions so the concentration of their faces will be high , one would expect that most marine animals do not all swim to one location for a poo together , but in colonies , like bats, birds, marine mammals , etc you will find high does of their poo and any pathogens that lie , there , and yes there are plenty of animal bacteria that can transfer to humans, any one heard of the corona virus !!! mainly found in bats and other animals these viruses have been found to transfer from animal to human
Yes I do know the difference between a virus and a bacterium but the process of transfer can still happen, ask the surfers , how many get ear infections and throat issues

[taxwizz]

Originally Posted by Hoodsail

During multi-day sailing trips, I just dole out mandatory anti-diarrheals to the crew....that pretty much keeps the pooping down to once every 3-4 days, sometimes longer depending on diet...I ease up if we get outside the Long Island Sound..."our eyes arent brown, cause we're full of love"..

And as their bodies jam up with poop, and intestines become overloaded, they likely eat less, too.

But be ready for the 2 ton dump at the end. YIKES.
"Holy shirt, Batman"

[taxwizz]

The discussion so far has been about toilets.
What about the sink water discharge?
That is mostly just water from hand washing.
Does anyone have any info on regulations applying to sink water?
Is it OK to discharge sink water into the lake or ocean?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Hoodsail

During multi-day sailing trips, I just dole out mandatory anti-diarrheals to the crew....that pretty much keeps the pooping down to once every 3-4 days, sometimes longer depending on diet...I ease up if we get outside the Long Island Sound..."our eyes arent brown, cause we're full of love"..

I hope this is meant as a joke. A defecating frequency of three or four days sounds seriously unhealthy to me.

[boat driver]

Originally Posted by jholovacs

...I didn't? I asked how seriously it was enforced, with the subtext of "why should I care"...

Consciously you should care. Now the real "poop"

Legally as mentioned the rule is three miles offshore. Period.

One of the methods of enforcement is during a routine safety inspection is to look for a "securing device" or look for intentional discharging in prohibited areas. Another great method is simply coming aboard for a safety inspection and dropping a dye tablet in the head (particularly in "no discharge areas"). If it comes up in the water- you really have few excuses.

Ideally, set your system to do a holding/treatment system and alternatively pump out. That permits all alternatives.

"dilution is the solution" is how a public sewer treatment works. If boaters actually drained their black tanks while out in deep wide bodies of flowing water this issue would not be as important- but when dumping 20 gallons in a closed harbor the obvious is expected.

Unfortunately, the wealthy boater is an easy target to regulate- a coastal municipal sewer is designed to dump thousands of gallons of raw sewage into the drainage estuary to prevent over volume damage. But that is emergency only so not factored into the environment study.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by taxwizz

What about the sink water discharge?

Not regulated, as far as I have every heard.