Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

[Fidsplice]

Such a common problem.
The reason is, you the owner and skipper, has serious responsibilities. Seriously! Most people don’t realise that, and “guests” certainly will not know that. So it’s up to you to clearly describe how you will behave and what you expect. Before they commit to joining you!

More to the point, you need to adopt your role and play it properly. Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not suggesting behaviour, but for the duration of the voyage you need to be in control. And that probably means being somewhat reserved and distant for that period. Your joining information might be:

• At sea, I am the master of the vessel. At law, I am responsible for the safety of the boat and all who sail on her.
• We will have jobs to do, and everyone is expected to do their assigned tasks. Otherwise someone else has to pick up for you!
• We will run a kitty. Everyone will contribute equally, and from this we will pay fuel, food, booze, customs fees, marina charges - and / or whatever you choose. But it is clear and up front!
• If we choose to socialise on shore, lets set a range per person that we pay for the meal, the admission and drinks. Anyone is free to go outside those limits, for themselves, but they pay for that, and they keep that to themselves.

If you get people arcing up to your rules - well that’s the warning bells ringing. And do not make exceptions.

Tell everyone that at the end of the trip, your hat comes off, and everything returns to “normal”.

Your peace of mind, your safety, their safety, everyone’s enjoyment. You can’t do it midway. It has to be from the very start.

Just my thoughts, and how I run my voyages now. It works for me.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Fidsplice

Such a common problem.
The reason is, you the owner and skipper, has serious responsibilities. Seriously! Most people don’t realise that, and “guests” certainly will not know that. So it’s up to you to clearly describe how you will behave and what you expect. Before they commit to joining you!

More to the point, you need to adopt your role and play it properly. Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not suggesting behaviour, but for the duration of the voyage you need to be in control. And that probably means being somewhat reserved and distant for that period. Your joining information might be:

• At sea, I am the master of the vessel. At law, I am responsible for the safety of the boat and all who sail on her.
• We will have jobs to do, and everyone is expected to do their assigned tasks. Otherwise someone else has to pick up for you!
• We will run a kitty. Everyone will contribute equally, and from this we will pay fuel, food, booze, customs fees, marina charges - and / or whatever you choose. But it is clear and up front!
• If we choose to socialise on shore, lets set a range per person that we pay for the meal, the admission and drinks. Anyone is free to go outside those limits, for themselves, but they pay for that, and they keep that to themselves.

If you get people arcing up to your rules - well that’s the warning bells ringing. And do not make exceptions.

Tell everyone that at the end of the trip, your hat comes off, and everything returns to “normal”.

Your peace of mind, your safety, their safety, everyone’s enjoyment. You can’t do it midway. It has to be from the very start.

Just my thoughts, and how I run my voyages now. It works for me.

Again, I guess it’s all my fault the guest liked child porn and withheld his arrest and conviction from me.... I should have somehow known.

And it’s also my fault our other guests expected an all expense paid free vacation after they “settled in” to a two week stay on our boat, then walked out prior to the trans Atlantic crossing leaving us hanging.... I should have know they’d bail out three weeks in advance.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by Fidsplice

...The reason is, you the owner and skipper, has serious responsibilities. Seriously! Most people don’t realise that, and “guests” certainly will not know that. So it’s up to you to clearly describe how you will behave and what you expect. Before they commit to joining you!

More to the point, you need to adopt your role and play it properly...

Tell everyone that at the end of the trip, your hat comes off, and everything returns to “normal”.

This is so true! A good skipper feels the weight of that responsibility, and is "on stage" playing that role for the duration of the voyage. The best skippers will explain all this ahead of time.

[atlantical]

The worst two crew I ever had was the two I paid, of course, it was my fault, they told me what I wanted to hear, I had been looking at Beneteau 35 in USA, broker told me it was no use for crossing Atlantic in, the crew I had told me, Americans just didn't know how to sail, I didn't buy that boat, crew advised me to buy Irwin Citation 35 which they said was a blue water boat, they lied about everything, lied about there qualifications, they had yachts master offshore certificates, they had told me they would write me out a competent crew certificate, they didn't have the authority for that, they were not qualified instructors, and they didn't have own a sailing school, I had been called by so many people after advertising job, it was twenty years ago, I had left merchant navy, had owned one keel boat, and a few sailing dinghies, but thought I would get professionals to bring boat with me from USA to UK, I had wanted to sail Atlantic, and had plenty of money, everything they told me was lies, we got to Bermuda, and constantly tried to put the price up, and get more money from me, when I said in Bermuda there was no more money until we reached the UK they walked, I think back to it now, they gave a low bid to get the job, and as soon as they knew that I couldn't change all the plans, they bumped the price, which I couldn't pay, so they then refused to do anything, I should have just put there bags on the pontoon in Charleston when they were up having coffee, and left, they were so green, and I kept making excuses because I wouldn't admit to myself, that I had hired a couple of people that knew less than I did. One of them I found out, had only sailed for two seasons, the other had a very dubious reputation on boat deliveries, as in, he didn't get many boats to there destinations, engines would pack up, then he would demand full payment for the delivery, they threatened me with law suits, and arrest of my boat in Bermuda, if I didn't give them more money, I just told them do what you want, there is no more money. and off they went. Cost me a load of money as I had to sell this useless boat in Bermuda for half of what I paid.

should have listened to the first broker, and the other people that told me you cant cross Atlantic in December, and you cant do it in just any boat. But I didn't want to hear that.

[Kenomac]

Atlantical,

Yes, it’s definitely your fault and my fault all these things happened because we can’t read minds. Not!

Well... at least the authorities in Bermuda didn’t confiscate your crews’ passports, deny you entry and send you back to the USA with those two clowns. It could have been worse.

Thanks for sharing your story.

[oslokid]

Thank you Ken for sharing your story. What a nightmare for you and your wife.

We are daysailors since my wife still works. So, my wife and I befriend a fellow sailor-couple on our docks. We invite them on a daysail on the bay and what do you know... the guy pulls out an electronic pot pipe. WTH. Then while standing at the stern holding the starboard backstay he manages to step on and break the plexiglass cover for the instrument dials. No big deal right. $250 to replace. No offer to compensate. We haven't invited them back.

My wife invites a girlfriend from work for a daysail / picnic. The ladies are having some wine and cheese. Turns out this lady is drinking a lot of wine. To the point of falling asleep / passing out. We get back to the docks and have to wait for her to sober up so she can get off the boat and docks safely. Geez.

On the other hand, we have had a lot of great experiences with other guests on board.

Anyway, congratulations on your new Oyster. Wishing you and your wife the best.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by oslokid

Thank you Ken for sharing your story. What a nightmare for you and your wife.

We are daysailors since my wife still works. So, my wife and I befriend a fellow sailor-couple on our docks. We invite them on a daysail on the bay and what do you know... the guy pulls out an electronic pot pipe. WTH. Then while standing at the stern holding the starboard backstay he manages to step on and break the plexiglass cover for the instrument dials. No big deal right. $250 to replace. No offer to compensate. We haven't invited them back.

My wife invites a girlfriend from work for a daysail / picnic. The ladies are having some wine and cheese. Turns out this lady is drinking a lot of wine. To the point of falling asleep / passing out. We get back to the docks and have to wait for her to sober up so she can get off the boat and docks safely. Geez.

On the other hand, we have had a lot of great experiences with other guests on board.

Anyway, congratulations on your new Oyster. Wishing you and your wife the best.

Thanks for sharing your story, and I’m glad you didn’t have to to suffer for more than a single afternoon each time. It’s painful when it happens.

[Over Budget]

Well, you have over 12 pages of recommendations regarding your situation so you probably don’t need to hear from me, but here it goes anyway: When traveling with other people where common expenses are to be shared, i.e., fuel, mooring fees, provisioning, etc., we all agree in advance to throw X dollars in a kitty and one person handles the bill paying out of that fund. We provide a “guesstimate” of the entire amount needed in advance. When the fund goes dry we all “replenish” the fund with the same amount as we put in originally, unless it’s agreed that amount should be more or less. Individual expenses, like meals ashore or preferred food/beverages, are paid by the individuals themselves. Monies left over at the end are split evenly. It’s not a perfect system, but it works for the most part.

[Buzzman]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

You are kidding.... right ?
You invite them, to an event for your mother and sister and want them to pay for everything and they are avoiding their responsibilities..... Wow ! I'm glad I have the friends that I do.

Boatpoker
You have clearly misunderstood both the Context and the content of my post, or perhaps I didn't spell it out clearly enough.

The context of my comment about people not shelling out for their responsibilities was due to having been stung in the past when acting as 'host' at family dinners at restaurants. People sometimes 'underestimate' what they drank, or forget what they ordered, and don't offer enough to cover it, with the 'host' ending up having to pick up the slack.

The content (and context) of this recent family dinner (all invitees were old friends of my Mum or family) was that I had warned everyone what the expenses would be upfront, and everyone 'came to the party' - brought cash, paid for their drinks, and gave me enough to cover their meals, Mum's/Sister's meals, the cake, and enough for a good tip.

I worried muself for nothing. Everyone did as I (or any reaonable person) would have expected. ie did not shirk their responsibilities, and paid up like the good people they all are.

This was a *good news* story. In contrast to the first half of my post about the cheapskates who offered to 'host' I and our friends to a meal at their home, and then esentially cheated us by overcharging for what was a pretty ordinary meal.

Further to that occasion, in February 2015, last year the same group of boating friends gathered on a river near where I live in eastern Australia, had some fun on the river in our small boats, and on the Saturday night we had a 'chip in' BBQ meal to which everyone chipped in $15.

I did the shopping, with one other friend to assist.

We had scotch fillet steak, sausages, potato salad, greek salad, pasta salad, green salad, plus all mustards, condiments etc etc etc, cooked it/prepared it ourselves on the facilities in the RV park, and had an excellent night. Those who wanted beers or wine bought them from the nearby liquor store.

Needless to say, the 'host' from the $25 'BBQ' event was not there, and much laughter was had at the comparison between then and now.

Consensus was, the $15 BBQ I organised was twice as good as the $25 one previously mentioned.

You win some, you lose some.

That was my point.

[mtns2marinas]

Originally Posted by Fidsplice

Such a common problem.
The reason is, you the owner and skipper, has serious responsibilities. Seriously! Most people don’t realise that, and “guests” certainly will not know that. So it’s up to you to clearly describe how you will behave and what you expect.



.....



Just my thoughts, and how I run my voyages now. It works for me.

Fidsplice

Karma can be a b!t#h sometimes and while offering your philosophy is helpful and generally constructive; offering ones opinion of other's situation without first hand knowledge is a risky endeavour indeed.

I had a friend in the States that was killed in a drive-by-shooting who used to say "guns don't kill people, people kill people".

[Prairie Chicken]

Ken has heard this story but I’ll relate it for others. We were puttering around the Bay of Palma, flying our big Canadian flag, when a large rib with a couple on board came up on us. It turned out they were Canadian also, had just come in from Croatia, and we’re looking for a recommendation for a marina for about six weeks before their boat went on Dockwise for the Caribbean. We suggested the Marina we are in as we like it and knew they would likely have room. Later we briefly saw the same couple in an anchorage and they had secured a berth, coming in on the weekend. That weekend they came ambling down the quay with a bottle of wine. We had a nice visit and they asked if we knew anyone who could do some work on their boat and then put her on Dockwise. We did. A couple of dinners later, they invited us to spend a week with them on their boat in the Caribbean that winter. We accepted. That was five years ago. Since then we’ve become very close friends. We’ve spent a lot of time on their boat—it’s a lot bigger than ours—and moves between the Med and Caribbean. We’ve also visited their home.

They took a chance after two dinners and invited us to join them for a week. Sometimes taking a chance pays off and things really do go well!

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Atlantical,
Yes, it’s definitely your fault and my fault all these things happened because we can’t read minds. Not!

Hmmm, sounds like you didn't actually read Atlantical's post. He DID suggest that the events he was describing were largely his fault thru inexperience and failure to adequately investigate the background of the people involved.

Seems like you are becoming somewhat defensive concerning the input of others. Sure some of the posts are critical of choices you made, but that is inevitable in discussions like this. Maybe the thread has run its course.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Dooglas

Hmmm, sounds like you didn't actually read Atlantical's post. He DID suggest that the events he was describing were largely his fault thru inexperience and failure to adequately investigate the background of the people involved.

Seems like you are becoming somewhat defensive concerning the input of others. Sure some of the posts are critical of choices you made, but that is inevitable in discussions like this. Maybe the thread has run its course.

Great last sentence.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by mtns2marinas

Fidsplice

Karma can be a b!t#h sometimes and while offering your philosophy is helpful and generally constructive; offering ones opinion of other's situation without first hand knowledge is a risky endeavour indeed.

I had a friend in the States that was killed in a drive-by-shooting who used to say "guns don't kill people, people kill people".

Looks like he was right, whoever pulled the trigger deserves all the blame for killing him. If he was attacked by someone wielding an axe, we wouldn’t blame the axe and if he was run down by a reckless driver we wouldn’t blame the car.

[Kenomac]

Last week I completed a delightful sail to Venice, Italy from Split, Croatia with my Italian friend Eugenio. The biggest problem encountered.... he wouldn’t allow me to pay for any food the entire week.