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Old 02-10-2018, 00:37   #106
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

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Sex offenders have the lowest rate of reoffending of all major crimes. That said, your acquaintance sounds like he has no intention of respecting laws or people. I just didn't think your comment about "never change" is reliable for all.
Believe it or not, I actually decided to give the guy a second chance and had him back on the boat a second time in Dubrovnik which lasted only four hours... this was before I knew of the sex offender issue; prior to this he’d been telling me his passport had been “reported stolen.” After hearing about his passport problems via text messages from Facebook over the previous days, I asked to see his replacement US passport firsthand which is when I saw the large black stamp reading “THIS PERSON HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF SEXUAL ASSAULT AGAINST A MINOR.” At no time during the prior three days did he even mention this to me even though I’m sure it was being discussed at length with the border police and Interpol, I then asked for an explanation. What I heard next was the most ridiculous bunch of excusses, lies and reasons for downloading child porn... he claimed he had been “conducting his own private, thorough investigation,” and he admitted to all of it including pleading no contest in court. I heard no remorse, just him saying that he “didn’t feel like it was any worse than getting caught peeing in a park.” His words. The only thing he was sorry about, was the FBI confiscating his computer ten years ago.

He was off the boat within an hour, and six hours later on a plane and out of my life forever.
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Old 02-10-2018, 00:41   #107
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

Kenomac, l feel sorry for you.

IN the 70s and 80s people on board were DISCIPLINED crew (and no guests). Newbies include. Not any more.

Captain retains the right to disembark anyone in a safe place. I was forced to it too.
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Old 02-10-2018, 04:23   #108
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

Hi Ken

We have had very similar troubles in previous years. There are times that we look at each other and have to laugh - we are literally just 'crewing' on our own boat. Shopping, cleaning, fixing, sailing, cooking, fixing drinks - it just got too much. Our guests would help themselves to nice drinks and not even bother offering anything to us!!

We have become super fussy about whom we invite onboard - those helping and bearing copious gifts (wine, delicacies etc) and those that actually enjoy helping with the sailing and chores, night shifts, they get invited. Everyone else can go sling their hook (one sister and her offspring included haha - I can see them on land anytime but they are not getting on my boat again!).

Freeloaders are not welcome anymore. Life has become much easier since we made that decision. We prefer sailing with just the two of us best, anyway!
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Old 02-10-2018, 04:38   #109
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

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Hi Ken

We have had very similar troubles in previous years. There are times that we look at each other and have to laugh - we are literally just 'crewing' on our own boat. Shopping, cleaning, fixing, sailing, cooking, fixing drinks - it just got too much. Our guests would help themselves to nice drinks and not even bother offering anything to us!!

We have become super fussy about whom we invite onboard - those helping and bearing copious gifts (wine, delicacies etc) and those that actually enjoy helping with the sailing and chores, night shifts, they get invited. Everyone else can go sling their hook (one sister and her offspring included haha - I can see them on land anytime but they are not getting on my boat again!).

Freeloaders are not welcome anymore. Life has become much easier since we made that decision. We prefer sailing with just the two of us best, anyway!
Thanks,

My wife and I were discussing this very subject just last evening, she was wondering why our credit card payment was so high but the fun factor over the past two months had been so low. I pointed out that over the past 8 days here in Croatia I’d spent zero kuna, zero dollars on anything. The only difference being that I’ve been alone on the boat as opposed to spending over 1000 euros during the 36 hours the pervert was on the boat for repairs and marinas as a direct result of his passport issues. It will take a few months to recover.

Next year will be different. We do just fine just the two of us.

Ken

Holy smokes!!! I just noticed we own the same boat. Nice to meet you, where are you located?
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Old 02-10-2018, 04:45   #110
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

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. . . We have become super fussy about whom we invite onboard - those helping and bearing copious gifts (wine, delicacies etc) and those that actually enjoy helping with the sailing and chores, night shifts, they get invited. Everyone else can go sling their hook (one sister and her offspring included haha - I can see them on land anytime but they are not getting on my boat again!).. . .

A great formulation!
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Old 02-10-2018, 04:54   #111
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

Yes, that is a good indicator. Low cash outlay for us usually means time spent doing what we love (sailing) and not wasted on trivial, material stuff..... This season we have spent next to nothing except on food (almost always cooked aboard) and drink (!) and....well just the cost of maintaining the boat (that works out as alot of course!)

That paedo guy, well that was a really weird one, and quite scary in a way - especially when abroad!

The other thing I dread when new people visit is.....are they going to be seasick and miserable for days? Are they going like the same food or are we going to have to fuss for every meal? Are they going pay attention to the 'rules' about using the heads? Are they going to ask 'what is the plan?' every five minutes....'when are we going ashore?', 'what are we going to do today?'....I just hate all that now.

I used to be chilled and relaxed about stuff, but I think I am turning into a grumpy old woman!
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Old 02-10-2018, 04:59   #112
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

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Yes, that is a good indicator. Low cash outlay for us usually means time spent doing what we love (sailing) and not wasted on trivial, material stuff..... This season we have spent next to nothing except on food (almost always cooked aboard) and drink (!) and....well just the cost of maintaining the boat (that works out as alot of course!)

That paedo guy, well that was a really weird one, and quite scary in a way - especially when abroad!

The other thing I dread when new people visit is.....are they going to be seasick and miserable for days? Are they going like the same food or are we going to have to fuss for every meal? Are they going pay attention to the 'rules' about using the heads? Are they going to ask 'what is the plan?' every five minutes....'when are we going ashore?', 'what are we going to do today?'....I just hate all that now.

I used to be chilled and relaxed about stuff, but I think I am turning into a grumpy old woman!
Where are you located? I’m sure my “grumpy old woman” would love to meet you... and probably talk about grandkids. We do have a number of friends who just chill and pitch in when aboard and really couldn’t care any less about going ashore unless we want to. They’ll also eat anything that’s placed in front of them. Guests get medicated if seasickness is a worry.
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Old 02-10-2018, 05:12   #113
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

We are in Barcelona! Four kids but no grandkids yet! Would be great to be in touch - Oyster Owners Forum?
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Old 02-10-2018, 05:15   #114
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

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We are in Barcelona! Four kids but no grandkids yet! Would be great to be in touch - Oyster Owners Forum?
Next season! After the boat comes across the Atlantic in May, we’ll try to meet up sometime in June. Yes, I participate on the Oyster owners forum as Ken M.
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Old 02-10-2018, 05:17   #115
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

Perfect! Don't worry, we aren't those sort of 'guests' hahaha
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Old 02-10-2018, 06:13   #116
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

Hi Ken,


Over the years, I (later we) have had occasion to invite folks aboard for periods between a few days and a couple of months.


I think that the #1 lesson that we've learned is that we need to come to as complete an understanding about several things as is possible, before the lines are tossed.


I don't think that there's a need to do a written contract, but a frank conversation between everybody is important. This is always a little uncomfortable to do with friends, but it sure saves a lot of potential heartache later. Here are some of our key points, with a comment or two after.



1. We don't need you to get our boat from A to B! You are joining us as guests and fellow travelers, and we like the help, but we are perfectly capable of sailing our boat with just one or two of us. We've had one or two have their trip with us morph into them doing us a favor (in their heads), and that's just not the case.



2. Money- It doesn't matter who pays what, but it needs to be understood what everyone is responsible for ahead of time. For us, this can mean splitting of costs, or if we're taking younger folks along without a lot of means, we'll happily pick up the bill for the lot. It just needs to be understood first.



3. Responsibilities. It can be full watchstanding or just being a willing hand. It all comes down to skill and our comfort level with the person in question. Most important is that it's explained and agreed ahead of time.



4. Probably the big one- They need to understand that they are guests in our home. We love our boat, we're proud of it. It's not just a mode of transportation or a toy to be put away at the end of a 2 week vacation. It doesn't sound like much, but even life-long sailors who have never lived aboard or cruised long-distances often have a very different view of what a boat is and what it represents to those of us who do this full time.




Anyway, it would be great if this could all be understood without having this uncomfortable conversation, but we've come to the conclusion that it's indispensable with even old friends.



Stuffy and a little clinical? Maybe. But avoiding misunderstandings is sure a key part of maintaining happiness aboard. It sounds like a conversation like this prior to the start of your cruise with the folks who met you in Halifax may have done a world of good.



Sorry we missed you over in Europe. We're crossing back W in December.



TJ
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Old 02-10-2018, 06:44   #117
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

Thank you a lot for this discussion, it helps to prevent misunderstandings, mistakes and risks to friendships or family bonds. I was aware of the challenges when looking for a volontaring crew, but newer gave it thought regarding former colleagues, friends or relatives eventually visiting us along the way.
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Old 02-10-2018, 06:54   #118
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

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As I read and read of people suggesting: contracts, letters of consent, manuals and guides for guests ... I wonder ... How do you people have any friends? Like ... real friends? Is this just me? Is this an american thing I just don't understand? I wouldn't just have ANYTHING to do with someone (friend I mean, not professional or amateur crew) that makes me sign a contract, or agree to a letter of consent ... I just feel it's fuxored up.

I kind of grew up learning and understanding that it is your choice to understand how other people are. Trying to manipulate people into being who YOU want THEM to be is really one of those things that **** up this world. I think it's even worse if you can't just communicate with them and you need a CONTRACT to establish it. What has happened to humanity?

I suggest you drink a couple of bottles of wine, and just tell people what you expect, and if they don't deliver what you expect, and you cannot accept other people the way they are, just don't bring them along the next time. It is still a valuable lesson for you, them and everybody. Friendships are not built on contracts ... me thinks.
Why is it always an "American" thing? what you are suggesting in the end is essentially the same thing. I'm sure Ken wouldn't have a friend sign something, as it is awkward and would have no teeth to it anyways. But what you say to do is a verbal contract of expectations. i.e. this is how it is going to go, this is what we are doing, take it or leave it. The benefit to not beating around the bush is not having to endure the crappy experience.
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:08   #119
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

Yes it is unfair to overgeneralize, but as the US population has led the way with humanity's changes over many decades, more fully embraced modern society, those from countries with more of the traditional ways intact among their social relations do perceive "our" ways with justified amazement and concern.

It's very hard to talk to fish about water.
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:17   #120
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Re: Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

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But what you say to do is a verbal contract of expectations. i.e. this is how it is going to go, this is what we are doing, take it or leave it. The benefit to not beating around the bush is not having to endure the crappy experience.
I agree. But it's a conversation on expectations, not a contract. I think it's very different. Re-read how many peeps suggested a contract. I manage my friendships like that. It has helped me still keep people around who did not meet MY expectations, but are still nice people to have around. I adapted MY expectations to their "personalities", and CHOSE to still befriend them. I don't know, maybe Im just getting old, and trying to be more inclusive. Who knows ...
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