Great Loop on a sailboat, but leaving the mast behind...

[SVRocinante]

Good day all.

I've been searching and reading the forum for a few hours now, but finally decided my question warranted a new post.

Wife and I will be doing the Great Loop in the next year or two, and I'm seriously considering simply removing the mast/rigging and leaving it behind for the entire trip. I just can't come up with a good reason to step/unstep our mast twice (Erie Canal & Chicago) especially since my sense is that we'd be motoring a huge percentage of the time anyway on the various in-land waterways/rivers.

I'd love to hear from any sailors that have done the loop and would recommend AGAINST that idea. I'm thinking the only real issue would be missing out on sailing the great lakes, but nothing stops us from going back after completing the loop to sail those areas.

Thoughts?

As always, thank you for your input!

[Scott Berg]

Before you do this remove the mast and motor about for a few days including in rough weather; most monohull sailboats make miserable, ear to ear rolling motorboats with the mast out.... we considered an ICW trip with ours and quickly decided not to after three days of rolling...

[JPA Cate]

Our previous monohull was a pretty stable one with the mast on, but without it, the side to side rolling was AWFUL! the gimballed stove whipped around like a mad thing. I had to hold bread over the open fire to toast it. Re-step the mast where you exit the river system, and keep it with you. Build a couple of simple crutches for it. You'll be okay where the water is totally flat, but if there are any waves, be prepared for a surprise that you may not enjoy.

Ann

[SVRocinante]

Wow!
Thanks, Scott & Ann. It would never have occurred to me.
I mean; I get it while under sail but surprised to hear it's more stable while motoring with the mast up.

[JPA Cate]

It offers roll resistance.

Ann

[misfits]

I picked up Captn Johns book about doing the Great Loop several years ago. He has done the loop in a mastless sailboat. He does look at the economic side of using a sailboat as a "trawler" & getting 16-18 mpg which makes fuel costs acceptable.

Me, I'm not expert but I think stepping & unstepping a mast has merit. First off you''re in a sailboat. Having the mast up in addition to providing "ballast" for the rolling issue allows you to hoist the main after Chicago to motor sail & have all the other "power boats" yield to you in theory. But like I said, I' m no expert.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by SVRocinante

Wife and I will be doing the Great Loop in the next year or two, and I'm seriously considering simply removing the mast/rigging and leaving it behind for the entire trip. I just can't come up with a good reason to step/unstep our mast twice (Erie Canal & Chicago) especially since my sense is that we'd be motoring a huge percentage of the time anyway on the various in-land waterways/rivers.

The Great Loop is a route that is built on three central premises:
1. You have a motorboat.
2. You want to go in a circle rather than exploring areas of interest then returning the way you came.
3. You want to be in a slip with services most nights.



I am planning for my own upcoming exploration of the inland rivers and Great Lakes. There are some alternatives to consider:


1. You can organize the trip as a series of explorations, rather than a loop, which simplifies dealings with the mast. There are mast service places on the Hudson that will store it for you, while you make a smaller loop on the canal system that does not involve any substantial travel on open water. There are several possible itineraries though the best involve the Canadian canals which may be too shallow for you.

2. You can utilize the portions of the route that are high clearance depending on your goals. For example, you can enter the Great Lakes through the St. Lawrence Seaway and the Welland Canal, with your mast up, which is a common alternative.

3. If you can't clear the 52' bridges on the Tombigbee, consider the Mississippi. While the lower Mississippi isn't usually a recommended route, it is a possibility to consider depending on the clearance you require and your goals. For example you could motor up the Mississippi from the Gulf and explore the Tennessee and Cumberland rivers if you can clear a 57' bridge, or major portions of them if you can only clear 60'.
4. There are mast shipping services for portions of the journey, particularly the Chicago to Mobile portion.



I haven't done it but the received wisdom I get is that the mast services are very good and lowering the mast for a river journey and raising it at the end is no big deal.


I would not want to be on the Great Lakes without a mast. Not only does it adversely affect stability, I would not want to get caught out with engine problems and no sails on waters that large.

[GILow]

Did a bit of the Murray River in my old Austral without the mast. It was horrendous. Even with the board down the poor thing rocked and rolled like a wild thing.

Is a tabernacle conversion an option for your boat?

[misfits]

Jammer, nicely said!

[slimnrp]

Well it’s what we are doing - right now - albeit in a 45’ sailing catamaran

Mast comes off next week in Lauderdale Marine Centre,
We are having s minor refit/furb and then we head north on around the 20 March.

For us, we have been motorboaters all our lives but really wanted to bring our own boat across from the UK and have a total experience, so we exchange our 50’ motorboat for a lagoon 450 in December 2017 - taught ourselves to sail, (thanks YouTube), and arrived in the Caribean this winter.

There are loads of sailboats on the ICW - it seems sensible to take the mast off -bridges every where - we will clear 17’ including our Bimini so will have a lot less radio work to do....

Our beam will be apir main concern, but there are plenty of massive boats around that make our 25’ girth seem narrow.

So - I don’t know how it will be for you, I suspect a real sailor will miss their mast and sails when in Chesapeake and the lakes bit of you can live with not carrying it for those reasons, give it a go!

All the best, Nigel and Ann
SV Saul Goodman

[cgs3]

I have made the loop from Greenville,MS down the Miss River to the Gulf, across to Mobile, up the Tenn-To, down the Tennessee river to Paducah on the Ohio River and down the Miss River back to Greenville.

The only fuel on the Miss River from Paducah to Vience is Memphis & Greenville.
About 530 miles from Greenville to Vience. Almost all the 12? lakes on the Teen-Tom have Marinas.

With high water in the spring as we have now the Marina in Greenville is closed

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by misfits

Having the mast up in addition to providing "ballast" for the rolling issue allows you to hoist the main after Chicago to motor sail & have all the other "power boats" yield to you in theory. But like I said, I' m no expert.

I don't want to turn this into a colregs thread (we have plenty) but feel that I should point out that this isn't completely true. Vessels that are motor sailing are power vessels for purposes of the colregs.


And in the Western Rivers, Rule 9 of the colregs states that vessels downbound with a following current, in a narrow channel (which is nearly everywhere on the Western Rivers) have right-of-way over upbound vessels. This applies even if the upbound vessel is under sail. (These rules are unique to certain areas, notably the Mississippi, its tributaries, and the Tombigbee Waterway).

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by cgs3

I have made the loop from Greenville,MS down the Miss River to the Gulf, across to Mobile, up the Tenn-To, down the Tennessee river to Paducah on the Ohio River and down the Miss River back to Greenville.

The only fuel on the Miss River from Paducah to Vience is Memphis & Greenville.
About 530 miles from Greenville to Vience. Almost all the 12? lakes on the Teen-Tom have Marinas.

With high water in the spring as we have now the Marina in Greenville is closed

Welcome, cgs3.


What did you think of the lower Mississippi otherwise? Were you able to go ashore anywhere in the 530 mile stretch with no marinas, by dingying into one of the boat ramps or whatever?

[cgs3]

We made our trip in the fall when the river is low and really pretty with a lot of sand bars & islands. A Coast Guard channel is clearly marked wit a fair amount of towboat traffic This time of year the river is in flood stage and water is over all banks & up against the levees. You can go into the lakes at some towns & anchor & take dingy to boat ramps.

[Mahayana]

Our boat is a Beneteau Oceanis 44CC (6’ draught; 62’ air draught) When we transitted the Erie Canal we cradled the mast which made us a 60’ long vessel. We did the Chicago to Mobile leg in 28 days in October 2015. The trip was great! But having cradled the mast in the Erie we had it and other rigging trucked to Turner Marine for about $500.

With facilities in Catskill, NY, Buffalo, NY, Waukegan (or Calumet), IL and Dog River, AL getting the rigging up/down is not an issue. And you dont want to miss sailing the Great Lakes. Dont forget Lake Superior! Its superior!