General question about heads on a sailboat

[Tom and Maje]

What is her opinion of going in a bucket until you get the head fixed. If it's a non-starter, get a boat with two heads.

We have two heads, and I'm very glad we do.

Maje

[Mike OReilly]

If reliability and "unstoppability" (to use a Pardey term) is key, then get a composter. There's almost nothing that can go wrong, and there is no functional problem that can't be solved in 10 minutes, or less.

[BAM]

Like your wife, we had concerns about lack of redundancy in a head system for a live aboard couple. We ultimately bought and live part-time aboard a boat with a single head. I was very concerned that we'd wind up hanging our behinds over the edge of the boat due to head problems, but it hasn't happened yet, in 7 years. We put in an electric conversion Jabsco toilet that essentially has a garbage disposal in it. We NEVER put TP or anything down the toilet that wasn't consumed, and we educate guests about this fact, and have signs to reinforce the rule, and we've never had a problem. I have spares for everything, plus the original hand-pump works, in case we're ever completely without power. The final back-up measure for emergencies is a toilet seat that snaps onto a standard bucket. If we got a bigger boat, I'd still like a second head, but having just one head has been okay all these years. (Another rule your wife may appreciate - everyone on our boat must be seated to utilize the facilities. Gentlemen who must stand to pee are welcome to do so off the transom, but all indoor facilities require being seated.)

[peter loveridge]

here's something I have not seen on this thread. Macerators are always giving trouble. Instead, get a whale gusher. They make one specifically for this purpose, can pass almost anything. It's unlikely to block, but you can get to the innards without tools. As an aside , for just a couple on a boat, one head should be plenty. For a backup , I rather like L. Francis Herreschoff's cedar bucket ( and, yes round here you can still get them)As for showers, used inside the cabin on anything less than 60 feet long, they are a PITA. I use regular solar heated camping showers that can be had fro $20 or less. I have a complete enclosure and just hang the thing from the boom. Should there be no sun, I just fill it with water heated on the stove. I use this while living on my boat from April to October

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by BAM

Gentlemen who must stand to pee are welcome to do so off the transom, but all indoor facilities require being seated.)

AMEN, many times over.

[reedsimonds]

Best upgrade we have ever made to the boat was the Airhead composting toilet. No smell. No hoses. No rebuild kits. No macerators. No pump out. No water. Minimal (almost imperceptible) electrical draw. And did I mention no smell? It changes life below decks.

[tomtriad]

A portapotti/Thetford is a good backup. Easy to stow and use, you can dump it offshore. Lavac is an excellent choice for a conventional head, easy to use and maintain.

As for performance sailing, Neel would not be my first choice. You'd be better off with an Outremer, Atlantic 40 or 50, an HH50 if you have the $$, or most any Eric Lerouge design.

[OneBoatman]

I am of the opinion that one head is fine two even as liveaboards. If you regularly have kids aboard you might find yourself doubly busy maintaining two heads, otherwise put your money elsewhere. I care most that the shower have a separate stall and its drain not be incorporated into the floor of the head. That way everything doesn't stay wet for half a day after someone takes a shower. I only had a problem with my head once on a previous boat and that was due to the daughter of non-sailor guest. Most important is that you not put excessive paper waste or feminine hygiene products in the toilet. That head was the manual pump type but I know for a fact the macerator type do not tolerate this well, a head is not a garbage disposal. The rebuild kits are simple and cheap, and repair is usually under an hour if you have what you need onboard.

[Dr.No]

Just for the record, I have modified my 53 footer from having 2 salt water intake wet head/shower compartments. We now have a larger, single compartment with a fresh water (separate 15 gallon tank) electric toilet going straight to a large holding tank, and custom small bathtub/shower enclosure. Yes, we will have an emergency bucket, possibly one of those porta potties. Cheers!

[desodave]

Lots of different opinions re the 1 or 2 heads. I stand by my previous that we wanted the extra interior living space that 1 head in a 42ft monohull allowed, notwithstanding that the 2nd head would have some good uses. We also have a separate shower compartment on the new boat and that is a major improvement ... agree completely with those saying no wet head.

One of the best things you can do with any head is to make sure that you're using TP that breaks down easily ie the cheap single ply stuff or, if you want to spend a lot more $$ for the same stuff, buy marine TP. Check the TP you want to use by putting a couple of squares of it in a quart jar of water, shaking it up and leaving it for a half hour or less. If it hasn't dissolved, don't use it ... it's likely to plug up your head somewhere. Our only plug in our previous boat (basic Jabsco manual) was when the Admiral bought some bamboo TP and thought it was the same as used previously ... it wasn't. Thankfully #1 only and it plugged right at the pump intake ... half hour of fishing with a wire and rubber gloves on unplugged it.

[CaptFrankM]

Background first - my wife and I lived aboard a 45-foot monohull for about 20 years. Originally, it had two manual Raritan heads, plumbed to two Raritan Electrasan Type I MSDs. We removed the forward head and MSD, and installed an HVAC unit in what was now essentially a wet locker. Used the aft head as our single head for the entire time.

Because my wife has a back injury, manually pumping a Raritan head was difficult, so we replaced it with a self-macerating Raritan. During the first fifteen years, the Raritan macerating function failed four times. Each time was the same reason. My wife has long hair. My dog has long hair. Hair floats through the boat. Some percentage of it gets caught in the head (or in the waste in the head). The hair invariably got wrapped around the shaft of the macerating pump, eventually bringing it to a halt. This does not happen when there is nothing in the toilet. It does not happen when there is only urine in the toilet.

After clearing the waste from the toilet, I would then have to disassemble, clean, and reassemble the toilet. Does this take a long time? Not after the first or second time - assuming you do not drop the bowl and crack it (yes, it happened).

After 15 years (and four cleaning sessions with the Lectrasan/Purasan that replaced it), I put my foot down and installed an Airhead. Wife had been VERY reluctant because of worries about "smell and bugs." Life became so much better. The two of us used the toilet daily. We emptied the liquid tank about every third day. We emptied the solid tank about every three weeks. I got to the point where I could do a "dump and flush" in about ten minutes and the material went into a double-wrapped black plastic trash bag in the marina dumpster (which is the same place I put dog waste if we were in the marina).

We did have, for a while, a backup Thetford. We got rid of it because it took up too much storage space and we wanted one big enough that it didn't feel like we were crouching tigers over a hidden dragon. We did have a few periods when we HAD to have a spare (waiting for a new toilet when I broke the bowl comes to mind), so we used a jug for liquid and went ashore for solid.

No advice on what you should do - YMMV.

[Networker]

I’d recommend at least 2, when life is good, guests can use one one separate from you, and when life sucks, so you can have a working backup.

[makjeng]

Originally Posted by jleonar

My wife and I are in the process of narrowing down our target search for a boat we want to purchase in the next 12 months.



This will be our first sailboat and we will be liveaboards(mostly at anchor). One area of concern for her is the number of heads. I am mechanically inclined, I can do plumbing, electrical, etc.



I think a boat with a single head is acceptable as long as we carry essentially all the spares to rebuild it if something breaks. She is worried that a repair will take too long and not having a backup isn't a good idea.



I am trying to compromise by saying, look, when we buy the boat, I will buy two sets of spares. I will immediately rebuild the entire thing just so I have direct experience on how to do it. That way the next time it will take less time to do a repair.



She is open minded on this but since we don't have any direct experience, she wants to go the safe route even if it limits some of the boats that could fit our needs better than some boat that has two heads but isn't as ideal overall.


So in the worst case, how long does it take most people to do repairs on their marine toilets?

Single head preferred. Definitely carry a full set of spares. 20 years’ summary. Holding tank zero failures. It has ALL fittings on top. Aeration system, one replacement. Macerator pump on outward path, 3 replacements. Various pipes about 10 years life. In tank suction pipe about 5 years. Whole head replaced once to go electric. Stainless bucket with flat rim has had about 2 days of use at sea. Tank level gauges, a relatively recent addition.. fairly frequent misbehaviour. Skin fittings replaced once.
Holding tank overflowed into sealed compartment once and sterilisation required a sludge pump. It was a long slow job so now have a an electric one with a portable truck starter Li battery to run it anywhere, any time. This pump is very handy for several occasional jobs such as water tank pump out; dregs a bilge pump can’t suck in etc.

[conchaway]

Takes about two minutes to repair---bucket and a piece of line.

[sailcrazy]

Let me take a different tack, FWIW. We live on a 43' monohull, with 2 heads. and we use both! When we bought this boat, in 1998, both heads were mechanical/pump toilets. We had problems after problems, and both were rebuilt multiple times. We now have 2 electric toilets...one is a Jabsco conversion, and the other a Raritan Elegance. And the Conversion is going down the road for another Elegance. It is quiet, reliable, uses minimal water and power, and looks like a normal toilet! We have a watermaker, so we hooked it up to fresh water, which also eliminated lots of issues. I should also note that I've "remodeled" a little, got rid of the long lines to the holding tank (that will invariably get plugged), and I made/installed had a second holding tank-with "Y" valve and macerator pump-out). We've had almost no issues with our setup, save the "conversion" overflowing on occasion, plus it's a power hog, and noisy.
If you're looking at monohulls, for 2 to live aboard, I'd recommend you look at nothing less than a 40'. Ours is 43'. a really nice boat, but it's only 43' long...some bigger would be nice!