Ecuador

[Trim50]

http://www.noonsite.com/Members/doina/R2007-07-27-2

Ecuador will now treat foreign yachts as commercial ships. A new computer tracking system (SITRAME) designed for commercial shipping has been introduced and yachts are to be incorporated into this. All yachts must now use an agent to clear in and out of the country, and also in and out of each port in Ecuador.

Agents fees range from US$150 to $200, and there are some other fees also. An agent fee must be paid for each clearance whether domestic or international.

Yachts sailing from one Ecuadorean port to another must obtain a domestic zarpe, while yachts leaving the country will require an international zarpe. In either case the yacht must provide a Sail Plan with details of waypoints on your intended route to the next port or out of territorial waters, along with predicted date and time of arrival. The authorities must be informed if you deviate more than 25 miles from your intended route or change your port of destination.

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Should be interesting to see how long it takes for them to realize the impact this will have on local economies that support yachting and boating.

I'll just skip the Galapagos if this holds true.

[rdbeales]

I'm curious if Colombian issues with piracy, civil war, and drug smuggling, all of which have been getting steadily worse since 1960s have prompted the Ecuadorian gov't to just generally clamp down in a desparate attempt to prevent the kind of spill over that is affectting Venezuela and Brazil. Some local news sources would probably provide a more complete picture of the reasoning behind this policy change. Usually that stuff flows north toward the US (with the drugs) but southern Colombia is an active FARC guerilla battleground.

[Keegan]

Fascist Left Wingers- The next Venezuala

[Alan Wheeler]

That is an uncalled for remark. Please refrain from making political statements like that.
They are simply trying to control an emense problem of drug tafficing. Many countries, in fact, most all countries require some sort of sail plan and will ask questions if the plan has been deviated from. NZ included. The difference is, most vessels leaving NZ are monitored visualy. Because it is visualy monitored, not all can be tracked. So some slip away unnoticed. With the problem Ecuador has, monitoring electronicaly solves that issue.
Will people want to pay the fee's? well I guess it is going to stop some from calling in to those ports, but maybe it's the only way to help reduce Drug running.

[Keegan]

Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler

That is an uncalled for remark. Please refrain from making political statements like that.

No offense meant.

The President of Ecudor is publicaly aligning himself closely with Hugo Chavez and others with similar political goals in Latin America. Since this is an ALL THINGS BOATING forum I will only point out that Chavez has not been a good thing for boaters visiting Venezula. Many boaters believe Chavez and his politcal agenda is to blame for the escalating crime over the past few years. Crime to cruisers. There are now reports of boats being confiscated in Venezuala by military officials. Venezuala is one of the busiest cruisers havens in the region and it is a very unfortunate trend.

Ecuador and a few other South American countries tend to be headed in a similar political direction as Venezuala. 1000s of cruisers every year are sailing around South American countries. I believe that this is a relevant topic for the forum.

Read This Link if you like:
Ecuador's President Calls for Socialist Latin America

I will not bring the subject up again though, if you decide that you prefer to supress such thoughts and ideas. I do enjoy the forum and appreciate and respect all the hard work that you and other administrators do here at the cruisers forum.

Thank you
Keegan

[GordMay]

State restrictions on liberty should be permissible only in exceptional circumstances, and the balance between norm (ie freedom) and exception (ie restriction) must never be reversed.
Wartime state encroachment upon liberty continues today with the unending wars on terror, drugs, et al. .

Freedom of travel is explicitly recognized in the fundamental international documents of human rights:

"Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state. Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights , Article 13
Universal Declaration of Human Rights

"Everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to choose his residence. Everyone shall be free to leave any country, including his own.... No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his own country."
International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights , Article 12
OHCHR

"Liberty of movement is an indispensable condition for the free development of a person."
United Nations Human Rights Committee, General Comment No. 27: Freedom of movement
University of Minnesota Human Rights Library

Citizens of Denmark, Finland, U.S. have most freedom to travel without visas ~ CBC News
Citizens of Denmark, Finland, U.S. have most freedom to travel without visas

”... "In today's globalized world, visa restrictions play an important role in controlling the movement of foreign nationals across borders," said Henley & Partners, which advises private and business clients on international tax and real estate issues. "Almost all countries now require visas from certain non-nationals who wish to enter their territory ...
... Visa requirements are also an expression of the relationships between individual nations, and generally reflect the relations and status of a country within the international community ..."

Countries and territories of the world, ranked according to how many other states their citizens can visit without requiring a visa. The list is from a study compiled by Henley & Partners AG of Zurich.
Rank - Countries - Number
1. Finland, Denmark, & United States 130 (tied)
4. Germany, Ireland, & Sweden 129 (tied)
7. Britain, France, Italy, & Japan, 128 (tied)
11. Belgium, Norway, Spain, & Switzerland 127 (tied)
15. Netherlands 126
16. Austria Canada, Luxembourg, & New Zealand 125 (tied)
20. Portugal 123
...
194. Iran, 14
195. Afghanistan 12.

[rdbeales]

The oversimplification of these serious issues and the practice of placing blame leads to them getting worse. A local perspective and a good amount of historical education would go a long way to helping us understand these problems and policies.

But this is not the place for that kind of discussion. The bottom line is that if people in any area become desparately poor due to war, disaster, foreign/domestic exploitation, they'll be pushed to extremes to survive, and then you can't safely sail in those waters.

[Paul Ouellette]

I recall seeing a report on TV claiming that the government of North Korea reluctantly "puts up" with bicycles, as (they say) they give people too much freedom of movement.

That may just have been political B/S, but it's not a big streach to imagine that any government that treats it's people like slaves (have a look at your tax bill folks !!) would also seek to control people's freedom of movement.

This is one of the reasons I just love the idea of cruising...

Whether real or imagined, every time I make another improvement to the boat, I think of it as being one step closer to being able to cast off & assert our own style of independence.

Perhaps also like some of you too, I get a big smile inside each time I wake up the next morning when we anchor the boat for the nite...it's like winning a few $$$ in the casino of real life by not having to pay out cash to a marina.

Certainly among the many things we all love about boating has to be the ability to anchor behind that zillion'aire's home along the ICW & wave good morning to Mr Trump as we hang out the towels on the lifelines to dry from our morning showers.

Let's all hope that having to micro-chip people to track their movements is still a little ways away.

"Brave New World" or not, the ability to just say "adios" when "they" decide to get in my face (& pocket) making demands has a great big appeal.

Look for up sometime folks...I'll be on the sailboat out at anchor !!

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by GordMay

...
Countries and territories of the world, ranked according to how many other states their citizens can visit without requiring a visa. ...

This is a pretty lame criteria. It says more about the visited country than the country of the visitor. If the country of visitor restricts its citizens from traveling, then it is limiting their freedom and sailing grounds. If you happen to be from the US, then you are restricted from sailing to Cuba. If you happen to be from Canada, then sailing to Cuba is fine.

Paul L

[Trim50]

Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler

That is an uncalled for remark. Please refrain from making political statements like that.

It certainly wasn't intended to be a political statement...if I wanted it to be political, I would have used words like socialists, commies or "stupid idiots."

Alan, feel free to change the title...it was intended to get attention to the subject and I personally believe it is completely called for considering the ramifications of what Ecuador is doing relative to the yachting community.

Drug Running...please, this excuse is right up there with War on Terror and WMD...especially considering Ecuador's history.

[TaoJones]

Originally Posted by Trim50

It certainly wasn't intended to be a political statement...if I wanted it to be political, I would have used words like socialists, commies or "stupid idiots."

Alan, feel free to change the title...it was intended to get attention to the subject and I personally believe it is completely called for considering the ramifications of what Ecuador is doing relative to the yachting community.

Drug Running...please, this excuse is right up there with War on Terror and WMD...especially considering Ecuador's history.

I believe Wheels' post was in response to the one directly above his, not to your title. I hope the title isn't taken down - it was what made me want to read the thread you started.

As to your observation about drug running, WMD etc. - well said!

TaoJones

[Trim50]

Ah yes...now that I re-read it...maybe so. I was kinda taken back thinking Wheels didn't like the title. Sorry Wheels.

[David_Old_Jersey]

My guess is someone from the US has been pressurising Ecuador (like they tend to do with most countries in that region) to "do more" to restrict the flow of drugs up north (is it still a "War on Drugs"?? ).......so bearing in mind this seems to affect mainly "rich gringos" on holiday IMO their is a certain irony to the action taken - maybe a local with a sense of humour?

Ecuador the new Venezuala? I dunno enough about Ecuador, but IMO they could do worse - could be the New Columbia or Haiti.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by Trim50

http://www.noonsite.com/Members/doina/R2007-07-27-2

Ecuador will now treat foreign yachts as commercial ships. A new computer tracking system (SITRAME) designed for commercial shipping has been introduced and yachts are to be incorporated into this. All yachts must now use an agent to clear in and out of the country, and also in and out of each port in Ecuador.

Agents fees range from US$150 to $200, and there are some other fees also. An agent fee must be paid for each clearance whether domestic or international.

Yachts sailing from one Ecuadorean port to another must obtain a domestic zarpe, while yachts leaving the country will require an international zarpe. In either case the yacht must provide a Sail Plan with details of waypoints on your intended route to the next port or out of territorial waters, along with predicted date and time of arrival. The authorities must be informed if you deviate more than 25 miles from your intended route or change your port of destination.

================================================== ===============

Should be interesting to see how long it takes for them to realize the impact this will have on local economies that support yachting and boating.

I'll just skip the Galapagos if this holds true.

FYI: Vietnam does the same thing.

[hellosailor]

"Universal Declaration of Human Rights "
Yeah, Gord, you and what army are going to enforce that declaration? Pipedream nonsense, nice concept but let's come back to the reality of sovereign states on planet earth. When the sovereign says "DON'T MOVE" you don't move. Most of the world would rather suffer than take up arms to change that--if they even notice there's a choice.

Even the late Milton Friedman, Nobel Laureate economist and honored economics faculty at the University of Chicago, had said that the only reason there is a drug "problem" is because the US has criminalized drugs, and thereby placed a huge economic incentive in the drug business.

We didn't learn the lesson during Prohibition, which served little except to turn "crime" into "Organized Crime" and a big business. If the US deals with its own drug problems, either legalizing drugs or curing the "need" for drugs, then the market goes away, the economic incentive goes away, and the entire drug cartel/crime problem goes away--at least in large part.

The politicians are the only ones who refuse to accept this. Personally, I'd have them arrested as co-conspirators and then permanently disenfranchise the idiots who believed them and voted for them.