Does anyone measure distance in "Cables"?

[sailorF54]

Cables are routinely used in the authoritative Clyde Cruising Guides for Scotland and Irish Cruising Guides for Ireland

[Pelagic]

And here I thought Scotsmen had a national disdain for Authority. [emoji57]

[first wind]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

You mean, one step away from obsolescence?

If that's what you meant, then I would politely disagree.

Fathoms are part of an obsolete system of measurement which includes feet and statute miles. Never mind that feet are very ancient, going back to Romans and before, they are a dead end and used almost nowhere anymore. They will go the way of the cubit. All these measurements have been replaced with meters, which are so much more usable than the old system. There is no need for a fathom, when you have two meters. (Note, however, that fathom is almost exactly 1/1000 of a mile! So we could well imagine a modernized fathom so defined -- a "millimile" or a "centicable".)

But the cable is a fraction of a nautical mile, which is most certainly not obsolete....

i must disagree on two points.

first, they tried to force the metric system on us here in the States but, we really didn't want it. of course, now we are stuck with cars that have both standard and metric bolts due to that little experiment. so, we don't use it here, except in certain fields, and i seriously doubt it will ever be the dominant measurement system in the U.S.

second. the standard system is not obsolete, if you know it (obsolete meaning it was replaced with a better thing) , nor is it difficult to use. fractions of an inch are based on half divisions. thus an half an inch, half of that is a quarter. half of that is and eighth. etc. it's very rational. all you have to know is how long an inch is and, thankfully, it's about the length of an adult index finger from the tip to first joint. we carry a ready made ruler that can be used when a more exact ruler isn't handy. a foot is twelve of these inches and a yard is 3 of those feet. very simple. very logical. very usable.

in truth, all human measurements are made up....including time. so, you really can't say one is more right than the other. as far as the cubit, it is not in fashion to use it now. in it's time period, it was a useful as the foot, the meter, or the cable. future civilizations my leave behind both the standard system and the metric system. it will not mean that their new system will be somehow better. it will just mean that is the system they use.

metric system people can be so snobbish about the metric system. as if there is some sort of superiority to it. instead of dividing and subdividing and arbitrary length by halves, like the standard system, the metric system divides (or adds) an arbitrary length by 10s. measurement is still based off of an understanding of and arbitrarily set unit of measure.

if you think about it, it is much easier to figure out measurements if you divide by halves. if i have no ruler and i need to measure out a portion of something, it is easier to calculate this by marking off half divisions than it is to evenly mark off tenths and then count your hatch marks. it is easy to see where the middle (halfway point) of a space is. it's not so easy to see what a tenth of it would look like, if you don't have a ruler.

[first wind]

Originally Posted by StuM

There are a few areas around the world with that sort of range including places in Canada, UK, India and Australia that I am aware of.


Reputedly, the Bay of Fundy in Canada has the largest with around 15 meters (50ft)!

holy crap that's a drop!

[first wind]

i, personally, think this debate is the same as the nautical language debate. there are people that refuse the terms head, berth, and galley, too. i think it is just laziness. most activities, cultures, or professions have at least some language structures that are different than those used by the masses. if a biker is talking to you and mentions his cage, he is talking about his car not a structure for keeping animals or people locked up. when you join the ranks of a group that has such group specific jargon, it is normal and traditional for you to learn the terms traditionally associated with that activity or group. for instance, a jew that converts to christianity no longer takes his family to a synagogue. they go to a church. although it's really the same thing; a place to worship the god of Abraham.

but, i think it's common with modern generations to not be willing to dedicate very much effort to things; only the bare minimum. it's all got to be the easy way. just as i have read posts with people saying it makes no difference whether they say the little boys room or the head, i am sure there is someone, somewhere arguing that it makes no difference if they say right and left or starboard and port (i am facing the front of the boat, right now ).

i think another part of this is the fact that modern people tend to want to impose their way of doing things on the group instead of merging harmoniously with the way of the group of which are supposed to be a part.

so, i think that's a big part of it. if you use the metric system on land, then why should you bother learning some antiquated system on your boat, right?

of course, i disagree. i think if you care enough to do a thing, you should care enough to do it correctly. that means if a certain type of measurement is used, learn it. if a certain jargon is used, learn it. if you can't be bothered to learn port from starboard or to learn it's a scupper and not a drain hole, maybe you don't really care that much about sailing.

i would think that, if you care about something, you should want to learn as much about it as you can...but that's just me

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by first wind

i must disagree on two points.

first, they tried to force the metric system on us here in the States but, we really didn't want it. of course, now we are stuck with cars that have both standard and metric bolts due to that little experiment. so, we don't use it here, except in certain fields, and i seriously doubt it will ever be the dominant measurement system in the U.S.

second. the standard system is not obsolete, if you know it (obsolete meaning it was replaced with a better thing) , nor is it difficult to use. fractions of an inch are based on half divisions. thus an half an inch, half of that is a quarter. half of that is and eighth. etc. it's very rational. all you have to know is how long an inch is and, thankfully, it's about the length of an adult index finger from the tip to first joint. we carry a ready made ruler that can be used when a more exact ruler isn't handy. a foot is twelve of these inches and a yard is 3 of those feet. very simple. very logical. very usable.

in truth, all human measurements are made up....including time. so, you really can't say one is more right than the other. as far as the cubit, it is not in fashion to use it now. in it's time period, it was a useful as the foot, the meter, or the cable. future civilizations my leave behind both the standard system and the metric system. it will not mean that their new system will be somehow better. it will just mean that is the system they use.

metric system people can be so snobbish about the metric system. as if there is some sort of superiority to it. instead of dividing and subdividing and arbitrary length by halves, like the standard system, the metric system divides (or adds) an arbitrary length by 10s. measurement is still based off of an understanding of and arbitrarily set unit of measure.

if you think about it, it is much easier to figure out measurements if you divide by halves. if i have no ruler and i need to measure out a portion of something, it is easier to calculate this by marking off half divisions than it is to evenly mark off tenths and then count your hatch marks. it is easy to see where the middle (halfway point) of a space is. it's not so easy to see what a tenth of it would look like, if you don't have a ruler.

While I think in Imperial, I do prefer to calculate in Metric as it is so much easier to just move a decimal point.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by first wind

metric system people can be so snobbish about the metric system. as if there is some sort of superiority to it. instead of dividing and subdividing and arbitrary length by halves, like the standard system, the metric system divides (or adds) an arbitrary length by 10s. measurement is still based off of an understanding of and arbitrarily set unit of measure.

if you think about it, it is much easier to figure out measurements if you divide by halves. if i have no ruler and i need to measure out a portion of something, it is easier to calculate this by marking off half divisions than it is to evenly mark off tenths and then count your hatch marks. it is easy to see where the middle (halfway point) of a space is. it's not so easy to see what a tenth of it would look like, if you don't have a ruler.

Yep, it's a pity that we didn't evolve with 12 fingers and thumbs. If we had, we would probably have ended up with the more practical duodecimal numbering system. Easy to visually divide into halves and thirds. And we would quite possibly still have come up with 360° circles

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

While I think in Imperial, I do prefer to calculate in Metric as it is so much easier to just move a decimal point.

That's the key point that the "dyed in the wool imperialists" tend to overlook.
As long as we use a decimal counting system, metric wins for anything other than simple visualisation of a small range of lengths and masses. As soon as you get into calculations, especially of multi-dimensional units, anything other than metric is a total PITA.

(And yep, I still conceptualise inches easier than cms for short lengths and stones rather than kgs for bodyweight )

[groundtackle]

I live in Canada, we are metric but still use both and thats okay with me. Today I miss hit my 8 iron on the 17th / par 3 / 154 yards, put it in the water, took a 5, it cost me a Toonie. Had a footlong at the turn, Drank a couple pints after.
ce

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by StuM

Yep, it's a pity that we didn't evolve with 12 fingers and thumbs. If we had, we would probably have ended up with the more practical duodecimal numbering system. Easy to visually divide into halves and thirds. And we would quite possibly still have come up with 360° circles

Indeed! Base 10 is carp, following from the number of our fingers, and being very awkward mathematically. 12 and 60 were used by the ancients for some things and it's better.

I disagree that all measuring systems are "made up" and therefore all equal to each other. The Anglo-English system is a nightmare. Of course you can get used to it, but it greatly slows down thought and conversion of values. The Metric system is not perfect (Base 10!), but it cuts through a couple of layers of extraneous noise to make it far easier to manipulate concepts dealing with measures and quantities. Objectively, it's a huge leap forward, not just some "preference".

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by StuM

That's the key point that the "dyed in the wool imperialists" tend to overlook.
As long as we use a decimal counting system, metric wins for anything other than simple visualisation of a small range of lengths and masses. As soon as you get into calculations, especially of multi-dimensional units, anything other than metric is a total PITA.

(And yep, I still conceptualise inches easier than cms for short lengths and stones rather than kgs for bodyweight )

Prexactly

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Indeed! Base 10 is carp, following from the number of our fingers, and being very awkward mathematically. 12 and 60 were used by the ancients for some things and it's better.

I disagree that all measuring systems are "made up" and therefore all equal to each other. The Anglo-English system is a nightmare. Of course you can get used to it, but it greatly slows down thought and conversion of values. The Metric system is not perfect (Base 10!), but it cuts through a couple of layers of extraneous noise to make it far easier to manipulate concepts dealing with measures and quantities. Objectively, it's a huge leap forward, not just some "preference".

At least the Metric system has a constant. I use inches feet and yards only because I was brought up in it.

[dlymn]

Originally Posted by first wind

i must disagree on two points.

first, they tried to force the metric system on us here in the States but, we really didn't want it. of course, now we are stuck with cars that have both standard and metric bolts due to that little experiment. so, we don't use it here, except in certain fields, and i seriously doubt it will ever be the dominant measurement system in the U.S.

second. the standard system is not obsolete, if you know it (obsolete meaning it was replaced with a better thing) , nor is it difficult to use. fractions of an inch are based on half divisions. thus an half an inch, half of that is a quarter. half of that is and eighth. etc. it's very rational. all you have to know is how long an inch is and, thankfully, it's about the length of an adult index finger from the tip to first joint. we carry a ready made ruler that can be used when a more exact ruler isn't handy. a foot is twelve of these inches and a yard is 3 of those feet. very simple. very logical. very usable.



in truth, all human measurements are made up....including time. so, you really can't say one is more right than the other. as far as the cubit, it is not in fashion to use it now. in it's time period, it was a useful as the foot, the meter, or the cable. future civilizations my leave behind both the standard system and the metric system. it will not mean that their new system will be somehow better. it will just mean that is the system they use.

metric system people can be so snobbish about the metric system. as if there is some sort of superiority to it. instead of dividing and subdividing and arbitrary length by halves, like the standard system, the metric system divides (or adds) an arbitrary length by 10s. measurement is still based off of an understanding of and arbitrarily set unit of measure.

if you think about it, it is much easier to figure out measurements if you divide by halves. if i have no ruler and i need to measure out a portion of something, it is easier to calculate this by marking off half divisions than it is to evenly mark off tenths and then count your hatch marks. it is easy to see where the middle (halfway point) of a space is. it's not so easy to see what a tenth of it would look like, if you don't have a ruler.

How do you go converting miles to yards and feet? I can't multiply by 1760 or 5280 in my head? What about stones to ounces or tons to pounds. Please don't get me going on your gallons vs imperial gallons versus litres. (or should I write the uniquely US word, liters)

It seems rather odd that a country like the USA would embrace the decimal system with its currency, probably because it's so easy to do calculations and then reject it when it comes to measurements of length and weight.