Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

[Factor]

Originally Posted by downunder

A Chamberlain 46 has the record for a solo round Australia circumnavigation. BIG WAVE RIDER | Bruce Arms

Bruce also won the solo Trans Tasman race a few years ago. Apparently though his vessel was entirely unsuited to the Tasman Sea and the Southern Ocean, according to some here.

[captain58sailin]

No one boat is going to fit every instance or sea state best all of the time. I think that a cat would be a really good answer to the Caribbean, not so much in Alaska, unless you are just day tripping in nice weather. I know my vessel is ill suited for shallow water cruising, so I won't do that with her.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by minaret

This is the reason I think cats are a poor choice for crossing oceans. They excel in flat water, but in any kind of sea state you are faced with reducing speed, thereby defeating the point, or being miserable and risking damage to the boat. The ability to do 15 knots is great in flat water, but useless in any kind of waves.

I don't agree with that. Sure a cat is proportionally better in moderated weather and a monohull has a comparatively better performance (and comfort) in heavy weather but regarding damaging the boat or being unsuitable for bluewater, or to cross oceans I don't think so. Most of the time the conditions you find on a crossing are not heavy and on those, especially downwind a condo cat performs better than an old cruiser type and as well as a modern one and a performance cat ( a true one) will be faster than the typical performance monohull cruiser of the same size. Even if not as comfortable an offshore cat will not have problems in coping with the more difficult weather conditions, even more uncomfortably.

Multihulls have the advantage of sailing without heel and that is also a comfort factor so we can say that most of the time they are more comfortable then a monohull. Size is also important to safety and sail motion and there you have a point, for the same seaworthiness a cat has to be bigger than a monohull. You have 25ft cruising sailing monohulls RCD approved as class A boats and the smallest cats approved as class A are about 35ft long.

It is all about compromises that you chose to accept or not and that exist also in what regards monohulls, for instance regarding an heavy narrower slower boat an a modern beamier lighter and faster sailing cruiser. There are lots of types of sailing boats adapted to cross ocean and the poor choice most of the time regards not the boat itself but being it adapted (or not) to what a given sailor prefers, the right compromise for a given sailor.

The fact that there are sailors voyaging in slow heavy monohulls, fast light monohulls, condo cats and performance multihulls says that there are sailors that prefer each of these types. They all have advantages and disadvantages in what regards crossing oceans.

What I don't think is fair or educative is on a discussion about sailing boats one sailor ignoring the disadvantages of his chosen type of boat, seeing only the advantages. Any type of boat is a compromise, with advantages and disadvantages and the fact that one has a boat with the right compromise for him, meaning that he prefers the advantages over the disadvantages, should not make him blind regarding his boat comparative disadvantages or others sailors having different choices of advantages and disadvantages that result in different compromises. That means a preference for a different types of sailboat, one with a different set of compromises.

[robert sailor]

The beauty of sailing is that it covers every kind of boat imaginable and lots of different sailors. As a group, sailors are a bit like pilots, they are very opinionated and thats OK, my Dad used to say you have to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
It is important when debating ideas to understand that no matter your position others will disagree with you and what would a forum be if everyone agreed with each other....boring!
Now back to the movie, multi hulls are boring to sail but some of them sure can go but they are noisy as hell and........

[Polux]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

...

But hey, you've read stuff, I've only sailed tens of thousands of miles in both types, WTF would I know.

That is pretty unfair. I am quoting the opinion of a guy that circumnavigated two times and experienced a very nice offshore cat (I like it) on a long crossing and a owner of a cat that changed to monohulls and had obviously experience with both types. The fact that you have a big experience with both and prefer one of the another have nothing to do with you to choose only to see the advantages of the type you prefer, it has to do with the type of person.

This is the cat that James Baldwin (two times circumnavigator) refers in what regards bad slamming, a Dean 44. I think they are great bluewater cats and certainly you think the same:
Dean Catamarans

[Polux]

[QUOTE=robert sailor;1536859]...
Now back to the movie, multi hulls are boring to sail but some of them sure can go but they are noisy as hell and........ some are fast like a dart offering a huge living space

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Polux

I don't agree with that. Sure a cat is proportionally better in moderated weather and a monohull has a comparatively better performance (and comfort) in heavy weather

er......... Id be happier on this than a monohull..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6AQLWMnC3E

[Polux]

Originally Posted by minaret

... In dead air, the monos can motor much more than the multis due to bigger tanks. The result is everyone gets there about the same time. The mono sailor just gets there with an extra hundred G's or two in his pocket...

I don't agree. A condo type 45ft multihull like the Lagoon has standard a 1000L diesel tankage, way more than what it has a main market 45ft Momohull. Even in what regards performance cats, for instance a Catana 42 carries 430L of diesel and that is also more than the average of 42ft cruisers.

Having two engines, since the conditions when there are no wind are calm, they can run only one with a noticeable saving in fuel wasting, increasing even more their motoring authonomy regarding a monohull. Has the performance cats are lighter than the same sized monohulls they need a smaller engine and that again diminishes fuel wasting and increases authonomy. Regarding motoring on calm weather they are way better than a monohull.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by weavis

er......... Id be happier on this than a monohull..

Sure everybody has his tastes, but just looking at the motion just gets me a bit seasick (just kidding, i don't get seasick). There are 32ft monohulls that survived cyclone conditions. You will not survive that with a small cat, I mean not those conditions: they don't seem cyclone conditions to me. There is a bit of sea, probably the left overs of a Cyclone, but the wind looks normal to me. Better conditions than these ones and this is just a 33ft monohull. They are pushing the boat because they are training, if sailed "normally" the little Beneteau would be doing fine. Could a 33ft cat be sailed safely fast on those conditions? I doubt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmLJAjLIHNA

[smj]

Originally Posted by minaret

Seems obvious to me you have little to no experience with the North Pacific, where I sail. Would you take a big power boat that can do twenty knots out in 15-20 ft waves and run it at top speed? That would be nuts, you have to slow down dramatically in those conditions. Same is true on any other kind of boat. Try doing 15 knots in your cat in those conditions for long, and something will break. You, or the boat. It's the reason the most common cat I see in the boatyard around here is the Trawler Cat.

Much easier to slow a fast boat down than to make a slow boat faster. Just because your car has the ability to go 140 mph do you always drive at 140 mph?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[weavis]

LOLOLOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcFEPiNAcqE

[Polux]

Originally Posted by weavis

LOLOLOL

Do you take from that movie that with 18K winds cat owners only sail downwind without waves while monohull sailors have fun going upwind with waves? LOL

It seems to me that on the monohull they are sailing on the multihull they are having a party

[Southern Star]

Polux, you are right that many modern monohulls are mimicking designs like the offshore 60's that were first used in single-handed around the world racing - increased beam, little rocker and flat sections aft with twin rudders that allow them, like most catamarans, to perform extremely well off the wind and while reaching. Does it make them more seaworthy? Does it make the motion more comfortable?

Once they discovered that the original offshore 60's could float upside down (like the cats they mimick), the rules were changed so that each individual boat would be tested to ensure that it could return upright in something like 45 seconds. Most had to use sailor activated canting keels, but at least they are tested, unlike any production boats that I am aware of that mimic the designs.

Like catamarans, however, the increased beam and twin rudders at least substantially reduces the risk of broaching on boats designed to sail largely with the prevailing winds.

Brad

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Polux

It seems to me that on the monohull they are sailing on the multihull they are having a party

Automatic transmission or manual

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Polux

There are 32ft monohulls that survived cyclone conditions. You will not survive that with a small cat,

Rubbish. Plenty have. I know two Sw1000s that have been right through the middle of Cat 5 and survived unscathed. One was being single handed. Was doing over 20 knots under bare poles. Just absolute ill informed fantasy.

I do get disappointed when people make stuff up. Or use the old "i know a bloke who was mates with a bloke who had a sister that was married to this other guy who's partner reckoned that his multihull was rubbish" line.

You like monos, fine - I don't care, good on you. Why do you have to justify your choice by criticising others?