Cruising Annapolis to Florida

[swpalmer1]

Hi All,
Anyone traveling south on the outside soon? We are currently in Deale, MD. just south of Annapolis on the Chesapeake having some repairs and new rigging installed. Looking for any cruisers that are planning on heading down soon. We are hoping to be leaving here within another week, give or take a few days. My wife and I are newbies and we’d love to buddy up and hang out as we hop down there. Especially the Norfolk, VA to Beaufort jump.
Hope to hear.
Steve and Mary-Ellen

[chris mac]

Hi, our boat is in deale as well. Waiting on a few parts for repairs,, then heading south. We are planning on staying inside, but flexible to weather.
We are away until Tuesday night, but I can send you a pm on Wed. And see if we can meet up.

[Auspicious]

Once you round Diamond Shoals it's a long way back into Beaufort/Morehead City. Can you stretch to Wilmington or Charleston?

I strongly recommend heading from Deale (Herrington Harbor or Shipwright?) direct to Little Creek non-stop. It's a good shakedown for crew and systems. Less than a day. Never miss an opportunity to eat, sleep, go to the bathroom, charge something, or press up fuel and water. Stop at Cobb's Marina for fuel and water. Tell dockmaster David Benns that Dave on Auspicious sent you.

You're a little off the grid down there ("down" from Annapolis). What are your provisioning plans? I can get you in Sam's Club in Annapolis. Have you provisioned for a hop before? It's a bigger deal than spare parts.

Do you have a rental car? I can easily meet up in Annapolis and go over your plans with you.

[Ortolan]

Congrats guys! Exciting times!

Don’t know you or your boat, but with the little you said & late November looming by the time you actually head off, I would just get moving south - on the inside. You can make 50 miles nearly every day versus getting down to Norfolk & waiting - what if you wait a week & there is still no good window - you certainly don’t want to still be in Norfolk in December. They’ll be plenty of outside jumps you can make once you get down to Beaufort.

Another advantage of just starting inside is that you will definitely meet other cruisers, especially stopping at any of the popular marinas. I caution newbies not to worry about or even want a “buddy boat” - you should start off at your own pace & comfort level - not some stranger’s. Believe me, you’ll meet plenty of like-minded cruisers along the way who you will sometimes travel with - sometimes not - but will likely see again days later to share tales.

Good luck & have fun! After cruising full-time for 10 years, our best memories are certainly from our first trip south!

Russ

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Ortolan

Don’t know you or your boat, but with the little you said & late November looming by the time you actually head off, I would just get moving south - on the inside. You can make 50 miles nearly every day versus getting down to Norfolk & waiting - what if you wait a week & there is still no good window - you certainly don’t want to still be in Norfolk in December. They’ll be plenty of outside jumps you can make once you get down to Beaufort.

Russ' post and mine reflect a difference in attitude and approach. Neither is wrong. His does reflect the majority of snowbirds. I however am not alone.

Some realities: the ICW requires more attention. It's going to be day after day of cold. Depending on your ability to operate in the cold you'll end up with short days. People talk about distance made good based on their best days. Average progress including fuel stops and lay days is about 35 sm. Week after week inching your way south with Jack Frost sitting on your head. You'll burn a lot of fuel. On the other hand help is always nearby and there are social aspects. You do have to fit under 65' bridges.

Fuel capacity drives progress. Every fuel stop costs one to three hours. Two fuel jugs will save you a day without a stop. Dump them into the fuel tank at the first opportunity.

I like to be warm when I can. If you are going to use the ICW I am fond of the Mr. Heater Portable Buddy catalytic propane heater. Follow the directions and be conservative. Ventilate.

Offshore is faster and there is more opportunity to huddle down. You can cross the Gulf Stream within a day (most boats) and get substantially warmer. You can sail. It's easy to pass through the Providence channels and back across the Gulf Stream to Florida, assuming you really want to go to Florida and it is not simply a way station to the Bahamas. Four or five days from Chesapeake to Bahamas, six to eight Chesapeake to Florida (most boats). You can carve a day off that hopping counter currents along the coast at least into Georgia but its colder.

I take issue with the suggestion that there might be long waits in Norfolk/Portsmouth/Hampton/Little Creek for a weather window. Weather along the US East Coast is dominated and driven by cold fronts which pass about every four days. Heading off just behind or ahead of a front (depending on boat, the front, and the depth of the Low dragging the front) is rarely more than two or three days for optimal timing and the worst of weather is rarely more than a day and a half. If you are going to cross the Gulf Stream leaving Chesapeake at 135°T avoids almost all local weather effects over Diamond Shoals and gets you warm fastest. If you plan to stop in Beaufort/Morehead City (Portside Marina in Morehead by the way, tell Denard Harris I sent you) you're more likely to run the beach. That isn't to say you shouldn't be watching the weather for Nor'easters and those can cause you to hunker down for longer but frankly they stop most ICW traffic as well for all but the most stalwart.

I'm assuming that you have an air draft limitation and don't fit under the bridges anyway as unwarranted concern over Cape Hatteras stops most people for whom the ICW to Beaufort is an option from asking your question .

[swpalmer1]

Originally Posted by chris mac

Hi, our boat is in deale as well. Waiting on a few parts for repairs,, then heading south. We are planning on staying inside, but flexible to weather.
We are away until Tuesday night, but I can send you a pm on Wed. And see if we can meet up.

Thanks Chris, we look forward to your PM when you get down Tuesday.
Where is your Marina? We are at Shipwright Harbor Marina?

[swpalmer1]

Originally Posted by Ortolan

Congrats guys! Exciting times!

Don’t know you or your boat, but with the little you said & late November looming by the time you actually head off, I would just get moving south - on the inside. You can make 50 miles nearly every day versus getting down to Norfolk & waiting - what if you wait a week & there is still no good window - you certainly don’t want to still be in Norfolk in December. They’ll be plenty of outside jumps you can make once you get down to Beaufort.

Another advantage of just starting inside is that you will definitely meet other cruisers, especially stopping at any of the popular marinas. I caution newbies not to worry about or even want a “buddy boat” - you should start off at your own pace & comfort level - not some stranger’s. Believe me, you’ll meet plenty of like-minded cruisers along the way who you will sometimes travel with -
sometimes not - but will likely see again days later to share tales.
Good luck & have fun! After cruising full-time for 10 years, our best memories are certainly from our first trip south!
Russ

Thanks Russ, we would go inside if we could. But the mast is to high.

[swpalmer1]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Russ' post and mine reflect a difference in attitude and approach. Neither is wrong. His does reflect the majority of snowbirds. I however am not alone.

Some realities: the ICW requires more attention. It's going to be day after day of cold. Depending on your ability to operate in the cold you'll end up with short days. People talk about distance made good based on their best days. Average progress including fuel stops and lay days is about 35 sm. Week after week inching your way south with Jack Frost sitting on your head. You'll burn a lot of fuel. On the other hand help is always nearby and there are social aspects. You do have to fit under 65' bridges.

Fuel capacity drives progress. Every fuel stop costs one to three hours. Two fuel jugs will save you a day without a stop. Dump them into the fuel tank at the first opportunity.

I like to be warm when I can. If you are going to use the ICW I am fond of the Mr. Heater Portable Buddy catalytic propane heater. Follow the directions and be conservative. Ventilate.

Offshore is faster and there is more opportunity to huddle down. You can cross the Gulf Stream within a day (most boats) and get substantially warmer. You can sail. It's easy to pass through the Providence channels and back across the Gulf Stream to Florida, assuming you really want to go to Florida and it is not simply a way station to the Bahamas. Four or five days from Chesapeake to Bahamas, six to eight Chesapeake to Florida (most boats). You can carve a day off that hopping counter currents along the coast at least into Georgia but its colder.

I take issue with the suggestion that there might be long waits in Norfolk/Portsmouth/Hampton/Little Creek for a weather window. Weather along the US East Coast is dominated and driven by cold fronts which pass about every four days. Heading off just behind or ahead of a front (depending on boat, the front, and the depth of the Low dragging the front) is rarely more than two or three days for optimal timing and the worst of weather is rarely more than a day and a half. If you are going to cross the Gulf Stream leaving Chesapeake at 135°T avoids almost all local weather effects over Diamond Shoals and gets you warm fastest. If you plan to stop in Beaufort/Morehead City (Portside Marina in Morehead by the way, tell Denard Harris I sent you) you're more likely to run the beach. That isn't to say you shouldn't be watching the weather for Nor'easters and those can cause you to hunker down for longer but frankly they stop most ICW traffic as well for all but the most stalwart.
I'm assuming that you have an air draft limitation and don't fit under the bridges anyway as unwarranted concern over Cape Hatteras stops most people for whom the ICW to Beaufort is an option from asking your question .

Thanks Auspicious, we plan on taking short hops until we reach Norfolk then we’re going to wait and hope to get a long enough weather window from there to get to either Ocracoke or Beaufort. When we came up last spring we were able to get into Ocracoke harbor. Not sure about on this trip down with the storms they got. We draw 4 ft in the catamaran so we’ll have to check local knowledge.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by swpalmer1

Thanks Auspicious, we plan on taking short hops until we reach Norfolk then we’re going to wait and hope to get a long enough weather window from there to get to either Ocracoke or Beaufort. When we came up last spring we were able to get into Ocracoke harbor. Not sure about on this trip down with the storms they got. We draw 4 ft in the catamaran so we’ll have to check local knowledge.

Ocracoke got hammered by Dorian. Don't plan on stopping there.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

* * *

Offshore is faster and there is more opportunity to huddle down. You can cross the Gulf Stream within a day (most boats) and get substantially warmer. You can sail. It's easy to pass through the Providence channels and back across the Gulf Stream to Florida, assuming you really want to go to Florida and it is not simply a way station to the Bahamas. Four or five days from Chesapeake to Bahamas, six to eight Chesapeake to Florida (most boats). You can carve a day off that hopping counter currents along the coast at least into Georgia but its colder.

I take issue with the suggestion that there might be long waits in Norfolk/Portsmouth/Hampton/Little Creek for a weather window. Weather along the US East Coast is dominated and driven by cold fronts which pass about every four days. Heading off just behind or ahead of a front (depending on boat, the front, and the depth of the Low dragging the front) is rarely more than two or three days for optimal timing and the worst of weather is rarely more than a day and a half. If you are going to cross the Gulf Stream leaving Chesapeake at 135°T avoids almost all local weather effects over Diamond Shoals and gets you warm fastest. If you plan to stop in Beaufort/Morehead City (Portside Marina in Morehead by the way, tell Denard Harris I sent you) you're more likely to run the beach. That isn't to say you shouldn't be watching the weather for Nor'easters and those can cause you to hunker down for longer but frankly they stop most ICW traffic as well for all but the most stalwart.

* * *

Opportune comments for me Dave, as I'm planning on leaving in early to mid-December from Cobb's at Little Creek (I'll say hi to Benns for ya ). I've done the Nflk-Bfrt ICW run several times now and am tired of freezing & burning fuel, so am opting to go outside this time. Destination is Miami & the Bahamas, although not necessarily in that order.

In my case, and whatever use it may have for the OP, the choice is sailing either inside or outside the gulf stream, and I am leaning towards the latter since I've never done it and, as you and others say, it's warmer. I recently plotted out two routes from Little Creek to Miami, one running along the coast and inside the gulf stream, and the other on the east side of the stream, just outside the N-NE setting current. The difference in distance came to ~140nm (830 vs. 972), and included the NW Providence Channel. Actually less than I anticipated and only an extra day or less for most boats. For the longer route, the distance from Little Creek to a point on the east side of the stream (using windy.com) came to 195nm at 132.5 Tº (you were off a bit ). The point I chose, btw, was at 34.43.37N 73.00.34W.

Interesting comments about the cold front cycles. Does your weather assessment change for Dec vs. Nov? Some say things stabilize a bit, although generally colder obviously. Any further comments about the three options being discussed would be most appreciated!

[jkleins]

it is really not that hard to find a good window to get to Lookout Point or into Beaufort, NC for a larger boat if you don't mind motoring when needed. The nice thing is if the weather holds you can be in Charleston or St. Mary's with another 24-36 hours of good weather. Other then thunderstorms that can occur in that area we have not had problems with bad seas or high winds by waiting and following the fronts out.
We usually stop in Lookout Point just because we like it and from there we often can wait for a nice sailing window further south. We almost always motor down the outer banks just because that is the weather we like to be in that area and we can plan our entry into Lookout in daylight.

[Sailshabby]

Originally Posted by swpalmer1

Thanks Auspicious, we plan on taking short hops until we reach Norfolk then we’re going to wait and hope to get a long enough weather window from there to get to either Ocracoke or Beaufort. When we came up last spring we were able to get into Ocracoke harbor. Not sure about on this trip down with the storms they got. We draw 4 ft in the catamaran so we’ll have to check local knowledge.

We’re in New Bern and just read an article on Ocracoke in the local rag. As mentioned, Ocracoke is pretty much closed for business right now. They’re still hauling away storm debris, figuring out whether to rebuild, and their “main” road is trashed to the point it’s 4wd only.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Exile

Opportune comments for me Dave

Holla!

The best publicly available data for the Gulf Stream comes from University of Delft but their website has been down for some time. I've written to ask but have not heard back yet. In the interim OSCAR and RTOFS gribs are pretty good for planning purposes. Your waypoint is fine for planning but I go until I'm across. Once you get underway the very best data comes from the sea water temperature display on your depth sounder. The temp will rise as you head SE, peak at the fastest part of the GS and then drop and stabilize (warmer than at the mouth of the Chesapeake). At that point you can turn South. Just aim for your destination on the Eastern side of the Bahamas from the turning point.

I would get across the Gulf Stream and do the Bahamas first. Head to Florida (if at all) afterward. Get the ROAM app. My thinking is that after a winter in the Bahamas you may want to get to where boat stuff and personal stuff can be easily shipped. If someone aboard needs to get out MIA or FLL are convenient and cheap. Whether you leave from Bahamas or Florida you get in the middle of the Gulf Stream (sea temp again) and stay there. You should be able to make the Chesapeake in most conditions on your boat in four days.

The pattern of cold front passages is driven most by high altitude winds (500 mb charts), not month to month. You can watch the 500 mb or just watch the pattern of fronts. Note that a front dragged by a 980 mb Low will be more sporty than one dragged by 1005 mb Low. A bunch of Lows aggregating will be more significant that a Low-by-courtesy bracketed by Highs. The pattern doesn't change quickly.

Most of our weather is born over the Great Lakes and Arctic Canada. Nor'easters are as near as I can tell usually born from Lows (again Great Lakes and Arctic Canada) that swing North and pick up a lot of cold air before swinging South along Atlantic Canadian and the US East Coast. Without the energy of warm water and warm air they don't last long (a couple of days). Definitely nothing to play with but short-lived. Watch the synoptic charts and they are very clear. Remember that just because you share an ocean with a storm doesn't mean putting your head down. While spead of advance is five to eight times ours something thousands of miles away won't dominate wind conditions although the swell can be significant at great distances.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by jkleins

We usually stop in Lookout Point just because we like it and from there we often can wait for a nice sailing window further south.

There are weather windows and then "weather windows." I once spent a week in Horta Azores on my own boat "waiting for weather" because it was just so beautiful and there was so much to see. Good food also. Sucks you right in. *grin*

[jet646]

Hi-
we are planning on taking our Sabre 425 south on the outside and hoping to leave as soon as we have the engine etc sorted. before the 17th. the boat is currently at Hartge boat yard.
Best,

Michael P