Common Etiquette screw ups for novices

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by tarian

Why , do you know that noise travels faster over water than an urban area, if my noise level is acceptable to me and my crew , and you do not like it.

Trying to make some sense out of this post, perhaps that is a mistake.
Why would you say that sound travels faster over water than an urban area? The speed of sound depends strongly on temperature as well as the medium through which a sound wave is propagating. Humidity has a small but measurable effect on the speed of sound (causing it to increase by about 0.1%–0.6%). I have been in plenty of urban areas where the humidity and temperature as similar to being on the water.
Also not the slightest bit clear to me what the first part of this sentence has to do with the latter part. And what does the speed of sound have to do with the level of the sound? I don't recall anyone ever complaining about how long it took an obnoxious noise to travel from the source to their ears.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by tarian

...So please no more loose garland insults , you have no clue how an adult with asperger's acts and who has lived a different life may or may not react . Like I said keep you amateur diagonis to yourself,...

I know that having asperger's doesn't give you a free pass to being rude. You can make all the excuses you want, but your contributions here are often abrasive and insulting. In this thread you have claimed you are respectful and considerate of others, and then go on to describe inconsiderate behaviour.

Sorry buddy, but you can try and hide behind your asperger's all you want. It doesn't wash. Living with others means taking their needs into consideration. As I said, most six year olds know this. And no, this is not an insult, it's a FACT. Those on the autism spectrum usually take longer to reach these developmental benchmarks, but most do.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

but there are a LOT more oafs than expected

I don't know what your expectation is, but I am not so sure I agree with you here. My experience is that very few of them were oafs.

My impression is that sailing fundamentally is a 'gentlemanly'* activity, attracting people who are thoughtful and patient. I imagine this is because there aren't that many problems encountered when sailing that are solved by brute force. In contrast to power boating where you turn the wheel hard and gun the caterpillars.

Part of the challenge can be that you just don't notice people who go quietly about their business, doing what they can to not impede, intrude, or disrupt others. But everyone has a story about an oaf that is hard to forget!


*sorry for the gender specificity there - don't have a good neutral synonym

[CarinaPDX]

I am inclined to make a distinction between common etiquette - what we all should have learned by adulthood - and nautical etiquette. No one should expect novices to know nautical etiquette, and usually a sympathetic explanation can set things on the right path. Also, as with any etiquette, there are often variations with location and other factors, and knowing that and being sensitive to it are important. As long as a novice is open to a polite request there should be no problem. Inevitably, some folks get their backs up, feel insulted or "told what to do", or insist on asserting their freedom to do as they please - screw everyone else. I don't really have any advice for dealing with them other than avoidance - not everyone can function in polite society.

What is particularly annoying are those that don't have even common etiquette. One does not have to have any nautical experience to work out that blaring loud music in an anchorage, any time of day but especially at night, is inconsiderate. Same for running noisy dry exhaust generators, especially at night. I really don't know what to do with such people.

Ultimately I suppose it boils down to whether you care about others or not. There is no fix for sociopaths that I know of.

Greg

[sailingabe41ds]

The solution to proper etiquette is what my wife and I did this weekend. We went to Prisoner's Anchorage in one of the Channel Islands in So Cal. We had the anchorage and the island to ourselves. We saw nobody for 3 days. We played loud music, hiked, drank, had a smokey bbq, no worries about being too close to another boat (we were the only ones), had our Honda 2000 early morning and at night, ran around the docks in our underwear....we did everything that normally would annoy others. We didn't even wear one of those covid masks! Nobody was there to complain about it.

It was great.....imagine being in California in absolute solitude with your wife (well that may not be a good thing for some...) for 3 days!

Absolute solitude....the is the answer to the etiquette screw ups.

Abe

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by sailingabe41ds

Absolute solitude....the is the answer to the etiquette screw ups.

It's true Abe. It's easy to be respectful of others when there's no one else around. I try and follow your sound advice as much as possible .

But of course, that's exactly why so-called rules of etiquette exist; to manage when you're not alone. I think Greg put it well: it involves caring about others, not just yourself.

Most adults don't have to be told that blasting loud noises in otherwise quiet places that are packed with other people is inconsiderate. But there is a segment of society (seemingly a growing segment) that only cares for themselves, and "my rights!"

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by lestersails

I don't know what your expectation is, but I am not so sure I agree with you here. My experience is that very few of them were oafs.

my expectation was that the cruiser/boater community was as friendly as everyone writes about. But the past 4 years of full time cruising, and even before that, it is apparent mostly the friendly level depends on whether whatever you were used to was friendly.

There are a lot more oafs and "only care about me" boaters than expected. Like the "friendly" boater that waked the crap out of you, but waved nicely as they went by all friendly like

[KP44]

Originally Posted by sailingchiro

Favorites:

4. power boats on plane in no wake zone

Even worse is the power boat that slows down off plane, and then speeds up to "speed of maximum wake" as it goes through an anchorage.

[SuW]

Originally Posted by lestersails

I don't know what your expectation is, but I am not so sure I agree with you here. My experience is that very few of them were oafs.
My impression is that sailing fundamentally is a 'gentlemanly'* activity, attracting people who are thoughtful and patient. I imagine this is because there aren't that many problems encountered when sailing that are solved by brute force. In contrast to power boating where you turn the wheel hard and gun the caterpillars.
Part of the challenge can be that you just don't notice people who go quietly about their business, doing what they can to not impede, intrude, or disrupt others. But everyone has a story about an oaf that is hard to forget!
*sorry for the gender specificity there - don't have a good neutral synonym

As a sailor, I say thank goodness for power boaters. We need someone to haul us off the rocks when we, er, fail to make timely piloting decisions...

(And I assume it is symbiotic, they have someone to feel sorry for.)

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by KP44

Even worse is the power boat that slows down off plane, and then speeds up to "speed of maximum wake" as it goes through an anchorage.

As a power boater, it never fails to amaze me how many others pay no attention to their wake and don't realize that the speed range between a bit under hull speed and planing is pretty much useless (poor efficiency and huge wake). Even outside of anchorages and no wake zones, I go crazy when I see someone cruising along at 11 kts plowing a 3 foot steep, breaking wake that's going to beat the snot out of anyone within a half mile. At that point, just speed up (and trim appropriately) or slow down.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by NaClyDog

You have a good attitude.


I would be upset if someone flushed paper towel at my house, never mind on the boat!

I had to yank up the toilet at my business do to a Kotex. Put a plaque in the head, if you hadn't eaten it don't flush it.

[SunnySky]

sailorboy1,
I think unfortunately a large part of the "only care about me" is a larger societal issue that has spilled over into the boating world :-/
With that said, I have also observed a general trend (and like all generalizations there are plenty of exceptions...): the more mild the environment/weather/etc is for boating the more overt selfishness and lack of care for other boaters is an issue, but the more challenging the environment/weather/etc the less it is an issue. The amount of relative space per boater is also likely an influence as well.

There are also certain "cultural" differences among regions that can be misunderstood as friendly/unfriendly such as helping an incoming boat dock or not. It would be a pretty rare sight to see someone up in Alaska rushing to help an incoming boat to dock because the general assumption is the boat operator will not have any problems docking their vessel, so UNLESS the incoming boat looked like it was having issues everyone likely would go about what they were doing but then (that is assuming the incoming boat didn't hit them and they weren't scowled at or cursed at for not helping to dock...) nearby boaters were friendly in my experience. In California, everyone seems to come running to "help" dock, which doesn't bother me but honesty doesn't help me either. While docking my focus is always on docking, so while I'm happy to socialize once my boat is secure I'm also leery of throwing a line to someone on the dock without any clue of how much experience they have...
Also worth noting that it only takes a small handful of "me, me, me" boaters to significantly impact the friendliness of a an entire local boating scene :-/ Actually not all that long ago I recently met a sailor that was VERY generous with his time helping me on some projects while hauled out and not only became a good friend but also literally that one single sailor helped re-balance/reset some of my feelings about the boating scene in Hawai'i (which is by and large very unwelcoming of cruising sailboats in terms of having a strong contingent of selfish boaters that take a long time for them to warm up to anyone that is not local, although in their defense they've also been burned by a handful of really selfish/disrespectful/harmful people...).

[sailingabe41ds]

Originally Posted by SuW

As a sailor, I say thank goodness for power boaters. We need someone to haul us off the rocks when we, er, fail to make timely piloting decisions...

(And I assume it is symbiotic, they have someone to feel sorry for.)

...and we boost their egos when they do that so they are more likely to take a risk again in their million dollar power boat and help a stranded helpless little sailboater. Yes, thank goodness for power boaters. God bless them and their ego.

Abe

[Blairfisher]

Originally Posted by tarian

....if my noise level is acceptable to me and my crew , and you do not like it. Why then do you have a right to say its not acceptable...

And if some one is playing music outwith antisocial hours then so what,they have a right to do so . If you do not like it move on....

If at any point I do feel uncomfortable at an an anchorage that is my personel issue and I WILL move on....
Move on and get a life

So to confirm, tarian: if I am anchored next to you and and my crew and I want to play some really loud music around 3 am, it is up to YOU to move? Nothing wrong with what I am doing, since it is acceptable to all of us?

Even if it annoys every other boat in the anchorage - they should all just move, right?

Maybe rethink this a bit?

[CarinaPDX]

In many cases the annoying music is coming from cockpit speakers, whether or not the party is in the cockpit. A simple expedient is to move the party below and kill the cockpit speakers - interior sounds don't usually travel that well. I have my interior speakers connected to the "front speakers" outputs, and the cockpit to the "rear speakers" outputs, and leave the fader to exclusively front unless I'm in the cockpit. It seems obvious and easy to do; the problem is thinking about it and actually caring about our impact on others.

Greg