boat purchase...possible opportunity or mistake

[Rol1964]

Originally Posted by wyb2

This description very closely matches the 80’s Catalina 36 that I bought for cruising in 2016. I didn’t know much about boats at the time. One difference being mine had a dry cabintop, but wet foredeck and side decks (plywood!).

Knowing what I know now, I may have pushed a little harder on price, or maybe held out for something else. On the other hand, I fixed cabin sole, fixed all the deck leaks, did a bunch of other work, and sailed that boat from New England to the Caribbean and back. The wet deck, including one sizable area of delaminated side deck, was never a functional problem. It was always on my list of projects, but never made it to the top, and I ended up selling the boat (with honest disclosure) for about what I bought it for.

I see a lot of ‘sky is falling’ attitudes towards wet decks, and it is a big project that most people don’t want to take on. But there is also a reason so many old boats are still actively sailing around with their wet decks - it takes a long time for it to actually start to impact the functionality of the boat.

I appreciate the comments. I always thought "I'd never be that guy who gets sucked into a sailboat toilet"...but here I am actually struggling with the decision. My logic is to skip over boat number 2, a 30 footer, and go straight to boat number 3 (at a deeply discounted financial outlay),make it live aboard / offshore worthy, after a ton of work and live happily ever after. As previously mentioned...the split in support appears to be 50 - 50 and this doesn't really help. I guess I need to hire a pro and get more to go on.

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by Rol1964

As previously mentioned...the split in support appears to be 50 - 50 and this doesn't really help. I guess I need to hire a pro and get more to go on.

There is no 50/50 mix here. Everyone told you to get a good surveyor.

As to the purchase advice you have received, it is consistent - if you want a cheap( purchase price) project boat, this might be it. If you want a good boat which isn’t a ‘money pit’, walk away from this one.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Rol1964

I found an '84 Tartan 37 that has been on the hard since 2019. The seller needs it gone. I haven't seen it yet (this Sunday weather permitting) but apparently it has suffered some water intrusion at the mast which has left the cabin sole at the base of the mast needing renovation. The seller sent me the last survey (2020) which also indicates high moisture readings in places on the foredeck and cabin top. Otherwise...the survey indicates the boat is in average overall condition throughout the hull and the internals. There are no brokers involved in this potential sale. Obviously another survey will be required but would it be proper to propose an offer pending a new satisfactory survey result? Many thanks for your guidance,
Rol1964.

Yes, make a written offer and agree on a price before survey. Be sure to have an expiration date on your offer! and always include one with counter offers etc.
-Simple water intrusion and plywood delam near the mast is not a huge thing. Just make sure the boat didnt flood with water.
-Some moisture readings in deck spots in not unusual at all. Still.... it depends on how high and how extensive an area.
-Make sure the engine will turn over. I doubt you will be able to see if it runs unless the owner lets you mess around a lot. You may need to get a jump start device to take with you.

Other concerns:
-Sails are expensive. Are the basic sails useable?
-Tanks: Are they removeable? Any sign of leaks? Some tank installations are very difficult to replace.

Finally, understand that a boat in poor condition can be the most expensive one to buy and leave you as a boat worker instead of sailing... for years. Even if you buy a boat with no major problems you end up a boat mechanic. Dont pay much for that boat!

There should be boat purchase agreements on line to use. I have one.

[Rol1964]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Yes, make a written offer and agree on a price before survey. Be sure to have an expiration date on your offer! and always include one with counter offers etc.
-Simple water intrusion and plywood delam near the mast is not a huge thing. Just make sure the boat didnt flood with water.
-Some moisture readings in deck spots in not unusual at all. Still.... it depends on how high and how extensive an area.
-Make sure the engine will turn over. I doubt you will be able to see if it runs unless the owner lets you mess around a lot. You may need to get a jump start device to take with you.

Other concerns:
-Sails are expensive. Are the basic sails useable?
-Tanks: Are they removeable? Any sign of leaks? Some tank installations are very difficult to replace.

Finally, understand that a boat in poor condition can be the most expensive one to buy and leave you as a boat worker instead of sailing... for years. Even if you buy a boat with no major problems you end up a boat mechanic. Dont pay much for that boat!

There should be boat purchase agreements on line to use. I have one.

As I work down through the list of repairs I am getting close to a ridiculously low amount that I would offer. I am using "shop" rates and including storage for a launch date of May, 2025. And I am trying to account for absolutely everything...
At this point I'm beginning to think it may be time to start looking for boat #2 again and forget about this potential disaster despite what ...may...be possible.

[wyb2]

Originally Posted by Rol1964

As I work down through the list of repairs I am getting close to a ridiculously low amount that I would offer. I am using "shop" rates and including storage for a launch date of May, 2025. And I am trying to account for absolutely everything...
At this point I'm beginning to think it may be time to start looking for boat #2 again and forget about this potential disaster despite what ...may...be possible.

Any sub $50k (US) 30+ year old cruising sailboat is going to be worth negative money if you add up the “shop” cost of bringing it back to 100%.

If you are hiring out the work, the maintenance cost of a $30k boat is the same (actually probably more) as a $300k boat in the same size range.

If you want to put the word “affordable” and the word “boat” together, DIY is really the only option.

[psk125]

As your costs to repair everything mount up to where you're rethinking going for this boat, Gord's advice upthread (post #9) bears repeating. Over the past five years there have been some really good years for maple syrup. Each freeze-thaw cycle that makes for a good sap run is an opportunity for wet deck to delaminate. Take a rubber mallet with you when you look at the boat and use it as the survey books suggest. Areas bigger than a foot or two across that sound "funny" compared to the rest will be problems that get worse, not better. Caveat emptor.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by psk125

As your costs to repair everything mount up to where you're rethinking going for this boat, Gord's advice upthread (post #9) bears repeating. Over the past five years there have been some really good years for maple syrup. Each freeze-thaw cycle that makes for a good sap run is an opportunity for wet deck to delaminate. Take a rubber mallet with you when you look at the boat and use it as the survey books suggest. Areas bigger than a foot or two across that sound "funny" compared to the rest will be problems that get worse, not better. Caveat emptor.

A "rubber" mallet will miss 90% of moisture issues.
Moisture Meter Mythology and Flir thermal imager

[GopherBaroque]

The first time I hired a surveyor was essentially to get third-party confirmation that the things that made me hesitant were justified reasons to walk away.

[Rol1964]

Originally Posted by GopherBaroque

The first time I hired a surveyor was essentially to get third-party confirmation that the things that made me hesitant were justified reasons to walk away.

Sounds good. This is where I'm at.

[Goodxcharly]

5 to &10,000.

Sounds like a fixer upper.

[KiminAK]

Don't do it. That is literally buying someone else's problem. I'm in Mexico and there are so many monohulls down here that are turnkey and can be bought for back storage fees. They aren't advertised anywhere, you won't find them on the internet easily, but they are here. It's so frustrating to see good boats just sitting and people who are desperate for boats and no way to connect them.

[OS2Dude]

No one but you can decide if the boat is worth it or not. One factor for us when we were looking was does the boat SING to you? We looked at a lot of boats, some nicer than what we ended up with, but none SANG to us. When we found 'The One', it immediately was a case of dreaming where we'd go on her and all the things we'd do. If someone has to talk you into a boat, then it is not the right boat for you.

If you are debating it still, I would guess it doesn't SING your song.

[sinnerman]

Originally Posted by Rockinar

Rotten cores are major issue. Do you want to sail or just work on boats? A boat with rotten core is not going in the water any time soon. Especially with short Canadian summers. The boat is a headache and money pit.

This is very true.

I bought a boat cheap. Since I have a full-time job, I can only work on it on weekends and as a result spend almost all of my weekends working on it instead of sailing it.

Also there are the EXPENSES invoved in fixing it up. I have spent many times the boat's purchase price in parts, equipment, supplies.

And the boat will never sell for what I have invested in it.

Also, you will always underestimate the amount of work (and time) required to get the boat fixed up.

My two cents.

Cheers

[OneBoatman]

Island Time 025 has it correct, I would say there would also have to be something you particularly like about the challenge of restoring an 84 Tartan 37. They were a good boat for their time. If is totally free, ask yourself will you be happy doing most things yourself plus dropping another 40-50K over the next 2-3 years to bring her back just far enough that you feel safe using her the way hope to. It's not that most other boats that age wouldn't or couldn't need similar attention, but you might be happier looking to find one from an aging owner just looking to get out, having already kept her up. Do know what you are getting into. My summer dockage alone for a boat only slightly bigger currently ~9K now that whole World seems to think if they just had a boat they too could somehow escape the problems we live with on land.

[roland stockham]

I see three issues. The most important one is suspicion about the deck. If it is a balsa core and that has become saturated, even in small areas that is a major task. Not necessarily expensive as a DIY project but lots of work. Second one is the electrical system and instruments. Electrical stuff often deteriorates in unused boats so you will want to check it carefully. Again a possible DIY job but lots of time and a certain level of skill. If the instruments are iffy or very dated that gets expensive!