Ancient Polynesian Seafarers; A learning journey

[Jhclay]

Another David Lewis book: The Voyaging Stars - Secrets of the Pacific Island Navigators (Collins,1978)

[Tupaia]

www.hokulea.com



Polynesian Voyaging Society as mentioned in previous posts.

The catamaran "Hokulea" did a circumnavigation under the stewardship of navigator Nainoa Thompson one of the remaining traditionally trained navigators. The project was a major event in Hawaii that was followed everyday on national TV and bought together young and old and saw a resurgence of interest in the ancient art and renewed cultural pride. A fantastic achievement.

[dustman]

A deep and meaningful interview with Nainoa Thompson. What an awesome person. Here is the video info from youtube:

Nainoa Thompson -- native Hawaiian navigator of Hawai'i's traditional double-hull sailing canoe Hokule'a, and President of the Polynesian Voyaging Society -- is a living conduit of Hawaiian culture and traditional wayfinding skills.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EpX8N2Ju7I

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by dustman

A deep and meaningful interview with Nainoa Thompson. What an awesome person.

Absolutely, a passionate individual. We had the pleasure of meeting with him when Hokule'a stopped over in Mauritius. He was still using traditional skills even in a part of the world that was unknown to him.



The voyage was being shadowed for safety by a large mono-hull Gershon 2, Hokule'a being literally a couple of logs held together with sting, so it was interesting to learn that it was necessary for Hokule'a to slow down in order for them to keep up.

[dustman]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

Absolutely, a passionate individual. We had the pleasure of meeting with him when Hokule'a stopped over in Mauritius. He was still using traditional skills even in a part of the world that was unknown to him.



The voyage was being shadowed for safety by a large mono-hull Gershon 2, Hokule'a being literally a couple of logs held together with sting, so it was interesting to learn that it was necessary for Hokule'a to slow down in order for them to keep up.

Not surprising since most large monohulls can't go past light speed(hull speed). I'm sure that Gershon would outpace them by a good bit upwind though. From what I gather the old double canoes couldn't make much better than 75 degrees to windward, which makes their voyages even more impressive. Not sure if they have improved on that with the reproductions. Seems like they did their best to make them as closely as possible to the originals.



You are very lucky, I'd love to have a conversation with him.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by dustman

Not surprising since most large monohulls can't go past light speed(hull speed). I'm sure that Gershon would outpace them by a good bit upwind though. From what I gather the old double canoes couldn't make much better than 75 degrees to windward, which makes their voyages even more impressive. Not sure if they have improved on that with the reproductions. Seems like they did their best to make them as closely as possible to the originals.



You are very lucky, I'd love to have a conversation with him.

Many of the original voyages, that were not there and back reaches, were circular trips taking in other islands to make best use of the winds and currents. The more distant voyages were often seasonal for the same reason. Although the crab claw sails are surprisingly efficient to windward especially on proas.



It is amazing to think these cultures were trading over vast swaths of ocean using shared navigation techniques before western civilization had "discovered" the Americas.

[Don C L]

And even if they aren’t pointing as high, they’ll probably still beat you to the windward mark!

[Tupaia]

A couple of interesting polynesian navigation articles here amazing enough in their own right but they developed this by trial and error!!

http://www.jps.auckland.ac.nz/docs/V...as%20chart.pdf

The full text is available here

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/...edAccess=true&

[carlosproa]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

Many of the original voyages, that were not there and back reaches, were circular trips taking in other islands to make best use of the winds and currents. The more distant voyages were often seasonal for the same reason. Although the crab claw sails are surprisingly efficient to windward especially on proas.



It is amazing to think these cultures were trading over vast swaths of ocean using shared navigation techniques before western civilization had "discovered" the Americas.

A while ago I built a traditional proa with crab claw sail. There are many features of the proa construction that helps it go better to windward than expected. One is the shape of the hull under water as the hull is symmetrical fore/aft but not at all windwar to leeward, one side is almost flat, while the other is rounded. Also there is a small angle of attack in the hull - imagine the shape of a banana as it curves each end. Of course is not that pronounced, is about 5 to 8 degrees. Lastly 1/3 from each bow there is a knuckle type of distortion introduced that makes the proa faster than if leaving it smooth.

The canting rig fore/aft also bring unlimited trimming of the sail to provide the proper C/E without the need of a rudder. My proa just had a paddle that I only used for downs wind positions which is not advisable.

Lastly on wind management or reefing, the sail can be scandalized fairly easy without the need of typical reefing points

Overall a fun boat, I regret until this day that I sold him (proas are male), I just like to experiment too much and my wife have me an ultimatum to sale all the sailboats I have built it rebuilt over the years. Sadly I just have now my EDELCAT33 and a Catapult inflatable catamaran that I just can’t depart from it

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by carlosproa

A while ago I built a traditional proa with crab claw sail. There are many features of the proa construction that helps it go better to windward than expected. One is the shape of the hull under water as the hull is symmetrical fore/aft but not at all windwar to leeward, one side is almost flat, while the other is rounded. Also there is a small angle of attack in the hull - imagine the shape of a banana as it curves each end. Of course is not that pronounced, is about 5 to 8 degrees. Lastly 1/3 from each bow there is a knuckle type of distortion introduced that makes the proa faster than if leaving it smooth.

The canting rig fore/aft also bring unlimited trimming of the sail to provide the proper C/E without the need of a rudder. My proa just had a paddle that I only used for downs wind positions which is not advisable.

Lastly on wind management or reefing, the sail can be scandalized fairly easy without the need of typical reefing points

Overall a fun boat, I regret until this day that I sold him (proas are male), I just like to experiment too much and my wife have me an ultimatum to sale all the sailboats I have built it rebuilt over the years. Sadly I just have now my EDELCAT33 and a Catapult inflatable catamaran that I just can’t depart from it

Yeah I'd love to sail a proa someday, the design is fascinating to me with some advantages over a traditional multi or mono hull. If you grew up sailing a proa, I wonder if you would switch to a boat that was slower and needed a rudder and reef points?

[Sparx]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

The first book i read on the subject....

https://www.amazon.com/We-Navigators...ct_top?ie=UTF8



....and another one i have but have not got around to reading yet, this thread has prompted me to dig it out

https://www.amazon.com/Hawaiki-Risin...s=books&sr=1-1



Polynesian Voyaging Society

Polynesian Voyaging Society

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyne...yaging_Society

And a doco on the subject that i am waiting to see...

I found this post quite useful. I have viewed most of these resources and just finished a careful read of “We, the Navigators”. Still trying to translate the “etac” concept into a working knowledge. I hope to explore these concepts on an upcoming ride down the US Atlantic coast.