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16-05-2012, 06:31
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#31
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Key West & Sarasota
Boat: Cal 28 "Happy Days"
Posts: 4,210
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Re: Air attack on pirates today...
Just a reminder: - Discussions about politics, weaponry and religion are permitted only in association with the topic of this forum and will be closed or removed if they become disruptive.
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Any fool with a big enough checkbook can BUY a boat; it takes a SPECIAL type of fool to build his own! -Capngeo
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16-05-2012, 07:10
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Back in Northern California working on the Ranch
Boat: Pearson 365 Sloop and 9' Fatty Knees.
Posts: 10,469
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Re: Air attack on pirates today...
Quote:
Originally Posted by cat man do
You do realise that the western world and big money pretty much control the weapons and the media don't you?
How to you expect a little third world country to take them on?
Your suggestions?
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See what I mean?...Category 2
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"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"
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16-05-2012, 08:02
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: 3rd wave passed the sea wall
Boat: private yacht always moving
Posts: 1,388
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Re: Air attack on pirates today...
getting closer to post 35 Don,,,,,,
buy the way,,,what country took all the fishing away from the Somali people???
England wanted to send a whole bunch of boats to Somali to teach them how to fish and make a living as fisherman. It was then pointed out that commercial fishing vessels wiped out the fishing for the Somali people several years ago...
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16-05-2012, 08:33
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#34
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Resin Head
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,205
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Re: Air attack on pirates today...
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainKJ
getting closer to post 35 Don,,,,,,
buy the way,,,what country took all the fishing away from the Somali people???
England wanted to send a whole bunch of boats to Somali to teach them how to fish and make a living as fisherman. It was then pointed out that commercial fishing vessels wiped out the fishing for the Somali people several years ago...
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From what I've read the Somali's like to point the finger at the Italians, and other mediterranean nations. But the Italian mob, particularly the Camorra, are often accused by the Somali's of dumping illegal toxic waste, including nuclear waste, along the Somali shoreline. They say their country has become a dumping ground for all the worst waste from the Med, and apparently they have some dramatically increased cancer rates to show for it. But maybe they just have a beef with the Italians left over from pre-war days, who knows? Hard to ascertain the truth.
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16-05-2012, 09:06
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#35
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Boat: Research vessel for a university, retired now.
Posts: 10,406
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Re: Air attack on pirates today...
Almost nobody needs to die to stop the pirates. Just keep destroying their boats at the docks when there are few to no people aboard those boats.
It is up to the Somalis if they want to kill hostages. But if you make the Somalis think that threatening to kill hostages will make a difference, then they will kill hostages in order to save their boats.
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David
Life begins where land ends.
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16-05-2012, 09:08
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#36
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Pusher of String
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: On the hard; Trinidad
Boat: Trisbal 42, Aluminum Cutter Rigged Sloop
Posts: 2,314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret
From what I've read the Somali's like to point the finger at the Italians, and other mediterranean nations. But the Italian mob, particularly the Camorra, are often accused by the Somali's of dumping illegal toxic waste, including nuclear waste, along the Somali shoreline. They say their country has become a dumping ground for all the worst waste from the Med, and apparently they have some dramatically increased cancer rates to show for it. But maybe they just have a beef with the Italians left over from pre-war days, who knows? Hard to ascertain the truth.
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My understanding is that in recent years there were studies done on water quality and even heavy metal samples conducted along the coast and these supported the claim that heavily toxic and even radioactive waste had been dumped for years in Somali waters in addition to many nations, notoriously China, over fishing their waters.
But as I cant remember the reports I read or cite sources it is just more heresy...
...but I guess I would be one of those "tree hugger" types that believe that social problems are rarely simple or exist without significant cultural and historical context...
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"So, rather than appear foolish afterward, I renounce seeming clever now."
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"You will do foolish things, but do them with enthusiasm."
Sidonie Gabrielle Colette
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16-05-2012, 10:04
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle
Boat: Krogen 58' Xiao Xiu
Posts: 276
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Re: Air attack on pirates today...
I won't express an opinion on any ultimate soluution to the piracy issue, but it seems that there at least some avenues to pursue by European countries that could have an impact. As FoolishSsailor noted, there have been reports for years that there has been waste dumping, both onshore and offshore, in Somalia for years. I simple Google search turns up thousands of references to reports of the dumping including on-site testing by various UN and NGO organizations. Admittedly, many of these, as environmental NGOs may have a stake or a somewhat biased point of view, but there enough out there to prompt action by the EU.
The gist of most reports is that the source of much of the dumping is EU countries. There were more than a few reports tying local warlords into the issue by taking guns/money to allow onshore dumping. Can the EU not do some investigation and policing to at least cut down on whatever dumping is originating in the EU. According to one article, EU laws place the responisibility for disposal with each country and that would include cleanup for illegal dumping.
Some action by the EU would at least be a start and could contribute to changing the position of the parties to a less exploitee/exploiter situation.
This does not excuse piracy or the killing of hostages, but, IMHO, a more comprehensive set of actions could at least begin a move in a better direction.
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16-05-2012, 16:09
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
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Re: Air attack on pirates today...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodhound
If Somali piracy is not an organised criminal enterprise, what the hell would you call it? Is it organised? Is it criminal? Is it an enterprise? Yes to all three. So what on earth are you going on about Cat Man Do?
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Look at it the other way using numerous actions that let's say, "The Americans" have been responsible for.
Lets take just one example and use your wording,
Civilian casualties in the War in Afghanistan 2001 to present
Quote:
What the hell would you call it? Is it organised?
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The US war machine is certainly very well organised
The killing of innocent civilians is criminal in "most" peoples eyes
The businesses associated with the war machine / effort do make mega profits, so yes.
It does look that way wouldn't you agree?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodhound
I don't give a damn what your hypothetical Somali press might call the gunship attack
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Says it all really
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16-05-2012, 16:48
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#39
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Bristol 35 Bellesa
Posts: 13,564
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Re: Air attack on pirates today...
As it appears there is really nothing else to add to this topic this thread has been closed.
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A ruby port your harbor, Raise three sheets to the wind.
......................-=Krynnish drinking song=-
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