Safe & Secure on Board ¨Locked In¨

[BandB]

Originally Posted by RainDog

I think that gets to the heart of it. I do not think anyone will change any minds.

Some see one scary picture and watch too much TV news and decide to barricade themselves in. Others look at the statistics and figure such incidents are so rare, it is not worth worrying about.

The first camp thinks the second is asking for trouble and lives in denial about the state of the world. The second camp thinks the first is needlessly living in fear and has delusions about their ability to protect themselves. Most people are probably somewhere in the middle.

The important thing is most here have not adopted the attitude that it is too dangerous "out there" and we need to stay at home in our suburban fortress. Most people are at CF because they are interested in discovering the world and are willing to accept whatever risks that might entail.

You're so right. To many the idea of even getting on a boat and going out into "The Ocean" is beyond their safety tolerance. I'm sure everyone here has heard, "You're going to what?". Just yesterday we mentioned plans to cruise in Alaska and someone looked shocked and said, "Aren't there dangerous icebergs like on Titanic?"

[valhalla360]

I believe the original premis...the world is a less safe place...is flawed. We live in a world where bad news is diseminated more commonly, more frequently and more widely. It is also done in a more sensational manner.

We lock up when we are gone but when we are on board at most we put the barrel bolt on if the wind is trying to catch the main door and open it. When we lock up, it's a padlock on the outside of the door. The primary thing to show from a distance that it is locked. Hopefully, they move on before they even board.

I've come across a few paranoid folks on-line but have yet to come across a cruiser who's boat I couldn't break into in a minute or so. Often the breaking in will cost you far more than the actual stuff they steal.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I've come across a few paranoid folks on-line but have yet to come across a cruiser who's boat I couldn't break into in a minute or so. Often the breaking in will cost you far more than the actual stuff they steal.

That depends on how you value the lives of yourself and your crew, as that is what some of the bandits come to steal.

We're not allowed to post the pictures of wounded cruisers or how their boats look like after the attack anymore, because they are deemed too shocking. I can only hope this makes you understand that there is more at stake than your wallet. Search the web for the evidence, it's all there.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

That depends on how you value the lives of yourself and your crew, as that is what some of the bandits come to steal.

We're not allowed to post the pictures of wounded cruisers or how their boats look like after the attack anymore, because they are deemed too shocking. I can only hope this makes you understand that there is more at stake than your wallet. Search the web for the evidence, it's all there.

There are risks in everthing in life. I refuse to live in fear of something that has a very small risk.

Obviously if you choose to cruise in dangerous areas, our approach may not make sense. If you are anchored off somolia, putting bars on the windows and a remote control machine gun on deck may make a lot of sense (I realize it's a silly example). We choose not to hang out in known dangerous areas as a better alternative.

Then again, if my intents were violent, I could break into 99% of the boats we come across in under a minute. I would be far more worried about a fire or sinking event where I'm fumbling with locks with very limited time to get out.

When I feel the need to box myself up in a locked cage so I can sleep at night, I'm picking a new lifestyle.

[kbudd]

The only time my boat has been burglarized is when it was stored in the boatyard for the winter.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

There are risks in everthing in life. I refuse to live in fear of something that has a very small risk.

Obviously if you choose to cruise in dangerous areas, our approach may not make sense. If you are anchored off somolia, putting bars on the windows and a remote control machine gun on deck may make a lot of sense (I realize it's a silly example). We choose not to hang out in known dangerous areas as a better alternative.

Then again, if my intents were violent, I could break into 99% of the boats we come across in under a minute. I would be far more worried about a fire or sinking event where I'm fumbling with locks with very limited time to get out.

When I feel the need to box myself up in a locked cage so I can sleep at night, I'm picking a new lifestyle.

The pictures posted by me and others were from places in the Caribbean, not Somalia. British Virgin Islands, St Vincent etc. I guess you don't go to those places, which is the smartest move. However, like you refuse to lock your boat, we refuse to limit our cruising area to first world policed areas; like you say, it is a choice.

Edit: BTW, I have never seen machine guns mounted on cruisers boats; why do you put such ridiculous assumptions forward? You insinuate that I do such things just because I lock my boat now and then?! May I please lock my boat, my car or my house without getting remarks like that? I am only trying to keep fellow sailors from harm, as I have been witness to incidents and feel I need to keep trying to prevent it. Our attacking me over that does not help; it may even have the opposite effect.

[goboatingnow]

I think this is a complex issue.

Firstly

There's no evidence one way or the other that " simple " preventative measures like locking one self in has any benefit. It's the case that most systems can be circumvented with a pry bar in minutes.

That then leads to the discussion about what to do next. So me sitting awake on my bunk with by hand on my 9mm is very different to being asleep with by hand on the wife ! In the first case I don't really care if you come down the steps.

Secondly

There seems to be a desire by those that take " locked in" approach to then convince themselves and others that the world gone down the tube and the cruising destinations dangerous. Comments like " yacht taken on the med " get bandied about. The fact that the other 2 million yachts arnt " taken " gets kinda ignored.

Whether mark is safe or I am " not safe " is entirely based on the circumstances. In some cases the crew is 4 strapping lads in the other its one lone unarmed white guy.

The disposition of the attackers is also a major factor. If the attackers come with the predisposition to enter your cabin, it's going to be damm hard to keep them out with passive defenses. If they are petty thieves they are unlikely to go below or even board , most cruisers have experienced some form of such petty thievery of items on the guard rail etc.

Hence I don't think being locked in is much more then a " placebo " personally I've needed several times in the middle of the night to be on deck quick ( not for intruders ) and I value quick exit over fumbling with locks. This is my view based on my experiences, the odd gruesome picture isn't going to change my mind , no more then a horrible RTA will put me off driving

At home I lock the door at night, because its possible to enter the house with me upstairs and unaware whereas on a boat its difficult to catch me unawares even though I know from the local crime stats that over 90 % of burglaries take place during the day.

Comments about extreme situations have no place in this debate. More people will be injured by props.

PS so I'm not arguing you or mark are wrong ! I'm arguing I dont think you're any safer in reality ( or course with a loaded Mossberg things are different )
Dave

[robert sailor]

I normally like to debate Dave a bit but I'm sorta in his corner on this subject. If you believe stats its safer today in this world than it ever has been although years ago we didn't know something happened 2 minutes after it did like we do today with 24 hour news channels. Fear is a top seller in the news world so we hear about it all the time, humans are really conditioned to respond to fear, politicians use it as does the local preacher.

That said, deep in my reptilian mind I would not want to wake up with some dude over my head so maybe having some bars might give a person a minute or two to devise some form of defense. Still thinking!

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

The pictures posted by me and others were from places in the Caribbean, not Somalia. British Virgin Islands, St Vincent etc. I guess you don't go to those places, which is the smartest move. However, like you refuse to lock your boat, we refuse to limit our cruising area to first world policed areas; like you say, it is a choice.

Edit: BTW, I have never seen machine guns mounted on cruisers boats; why do you put such ridiculous assumptions forward? You insinuate that I do such things just because I lock my boat now and then?! May I please lock my boat, my car or my house without getting remarks like that? I am only trying to keep fellow sailors from harm, as I have been witness to incidents and feel I need to keep trying to prevent it. Our attacking me over that does not help; it may even have the opposite effect.

While we haven't gotten there on the boat been there many times and often get outside the tourist areas. Mexico too (decapitated bodies on every street corner if you read the online reports, some including pictures, but never seen one yet.)

As I said, if I meant harm, I could be inside the vast majority of locked boats in well under a minute. Unless you want to play shoote-em-up (hence the deck mounted machine gun comment to add a little levity), locking the door provides negligible safety benefits.

If it makes you sleep better, then by all means lock the door. I would recommend a system that automatically unlocks from the inside if you are trying to get out (obviously, you will have to come up with something different but as an example: hotel doors will unlock the deadbolt automatically if you are leaving the room as a fire safety feature). Also apply this to the hatches which may be needed in an emergency if the main entry is blocked.

I do safety analysis (car crashes not home invaders) for a living and this strikes me as very similar to the "it's worth it, if one life is saved" arguement. The problem is the people saying this are usually responding to fear not a rational analysis of the situation. When you look at it rationally, there are costs and there are benefits to every option. You can never reach 100% safe and some options really aren't worth the cost.

[wanderer1]

In April of 2011 I was attacked or boarded,whichever you prefer,in Nassau at 01:10 .My girlfriend woke me up to tell me some one was on the boat.I woke up instantly,spending 36 years on ships .It was ordinary,part of the job.The rest is not for armchair sailors.I had 3 quarts of Vodka in me when I went to sleep at 22:00 hrs.Opened my eyes to look up at a big black fella looking down through my for`d hatch,jumped out of bed hollering saying I would shoot the F@#!@$%^^& hoping he would leave.I grabbed my flare gun and said the same thing again when I loaded and cocked it.2 splashes,1 on the bow and 1 on the stern,didn`t know the 1 on the stern was there.They swam out from the shore.Called the harbour police,they were there in 2-3 minutes,already on the scene because the night before the cleanened a 45ftr. out of all his electronics that he had just installed for extended cruising while we sitting there in the Green Parrot,before dark ,looking at his boat.My conclusion on this was that one of the waitress`es of the Green Parrot was in Cahoots with the pirates or Raiders.Everybody would meet ther everynight for supper and talk about their boat and what they had on it for equiptment plus their sailing adventures.I have no doubt in my mind they were coming on board my boat to kill me and my girlfriend and get my boat out of there before daylight.But that was Nassau and Grand Bahamas wasn`t much better.Exhumas and south was beautiful and so were were the people.Only an opinion,mine!!!

[wanderer1]

This was all documented with the Bahamian police and should be easily found.Had to stay there 3 days while they done their investigation.Was there so my girlfriend could fly home after spending six weeks sailng around the southern Bahamas and she was flying out of Nassau to Halifax, Nova Scotia

[hellosailor]

Wanderer, if you had even two quarts of vodka in you, that's acute alcohol poisoning and you'd wake up dead. One quart can kill most people.

You'd better go back to the bar and kiss the bartender's feet, and thank him for watering the booze so heavily.

[Miniyot]

Good catch on the alcohol content!

[Therapy]

Quaffs, not quarts.
Prob a little above 0.8 eh.
But so what.

[Lose My Number]

Forgive the newbie perspective, but I'm surprised this thread has gotten this deep and nobody has mentioned dogs or other pets. Is the number of cruisers who have an animal on board, that would report and potentially deter any boarding while your present, that low? Other than locking up from the outside when departing, am I missing something?

All planning and shopping at the moment, but will be cruising with dog(s) and bird later this year.