Bareboat back and forth BVI to USVI

[lestersails]

Anyone know what is up with charters from the BVI re going to the USVI? My contract says no crossing to USVI, period. The charter company gives a vague rationale, something about a squabble over money maybe in customs and immigration?

[SailingHarmonie]

If your charter contract says, “NO”, what else is there to hear?

They don’t need a rational reason, and they don’t need to explain why to your satisfaction. If you do not like it, find another charter company.

[Tin Tin]

Apart from the hassle of customs and immigration procedures for exiting BVI, entering USVI, re-entering BVI there could be an issue if the boat you are chartering is US flagged, and then duty may be a problem. If it is not US flagged it will need a cruising license and fee and hanging around doing this paperwork is not fun and then 3 lots of clearance fees (no charge to exit USVI). In addition if you have an incident in US waters, then it becomes a serious hassle for the owner of the boat as you are not in his jurisdiction. Simplest way to deal with this from Charter managers point of view is to say no. If you want to sail USVI - charter a boat at Charlotte Amalie. Some charters do it anyway and thumb their noses at the rules, now days though everything is trackable and deposits at risk.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Tin Tin

Apart from the hassle of customs and immigration procedures for exiting BVI, entering USVI, re-entering BVI there could be an issue if the boat you are chartering is US flagged, and then duty may be a problem. If it is not US flagged it will need a cruising license and fee and hanging around doing this paperwork is not fun and then 3 lots of clearance fees (no charge to exit USVI). In addition if you have an incident in US waters, then it becomes a serious hassle for the owner of the boat as you are not in his jurisdiction. Simplest way to deal with this from Charter managers point of view is to say no. If you want to sail USVI - charter a boat at Charlotte Amalie. Some charters do it anyway and thumb their noses at the rules, now days though everything is trackable and deposits at risk.

Hey Tin Tin
Thanks for this. Makes sense and I appreciate the civil response! In prepandemic days, we used to charter regularly in USVI (from the former CYOA) do a couple stops on St. John and then go through Customs at West End, then meander through BVI and come back through US Customs at Cruz Bay, and return to Frenchtown. St. John made a nice addition to BVI, Cruz Bay was nice as the ladies liked to do a bit of shopping, restaurants and provisioning were good. It made for a nice 10-11 day cruise to do both USVI & BVI. Based on your post, I browsed a couple USVI charter operations web sites and while I cannot see the contracts, they all show only USVI-only and USVI/SVI-only itineraries. So maybe that USVI/BVI crossing is kaput from both sides of the border.
It would never occur to me to cross an international border if the charter contract said "no"!

[BrianInBoston]

Combining USVI and BVI can be done as in the old days, but the boat has to have been specifically BVI-inspected and approved similar to a commercial vessel ahead of time. This I'm told is expensive and time consuming for the vessel owner, which is why most companies don't bother. I had Virgin Island Sailing look for a charter company on the US side that is set up for that, and we're now booked next month on a St Thomas FP Lucia 40, four days in the BVI and four on St John. There's a very specific and rigid procedure to follow and they use an agent on the BVI side to handle the in-person customs process. The US check-in is done remotely via the CPB Roam app, I used that going to Culebra last year.

There's also definitely more fees than before, but combining the BVI beach bars with St John beaches and snorkeling always made for a memorable vacation. I'll make sure to post how it worked out.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by BrianInBoston

Combining USVI and BVI can be done as in the old days, but the boat has to have been specifically BVI-inspected and approved similar to a commercial vessel ahead of time. This I'm told is expensive and time consuming for the vessel owner, which is why most companies don't bother. I had Virgin Island Sailing look for a charter company on the US side that is set up for that, and we're now booked next month on a St Thomas FP Lucia 40, four days in the BVI and four on St John. There's a very specific and rigid procedure to follow and they use an agent on the BVI side to handle the in-person customs process. The US check-in is done remotely via the CPB Roam app, I used that going to Culebra last year.

There's also definitely more fees than before, but combining the BVI beach bars with St John beaches and snorkeling always made for a memorable vacation. I'll make sure to post how it worked out.

Extremely helpful, thank you. Am eager to hear the outcome of this trip. If it works out, please post the name of the charter company.

[lestersails]

Hi All
Update on this thread. I just got an email today that Dream is taking requests for folks who want to charter out of USVI and cruise both USVI & BVI. They don't specify what the basis is for the limit, as expected. But if anyone does it or learns more, please update us. Just got back from a 2 week in BVI. It was lovely, but would have been lovelier if we could have included a few bays in St. John.

[rjwdoc]

Originally Posted by lestersails

Hi All
Update on this thread. I just got an email today that Dream is taking requests for folks who want to charter out of USVI and cruise both USVI & BVI. They don't specify what the basis is for the limit, as expected. But if anyone does it or learns more, please update us. Just got back from a 2 week in BVI. It was lovely, but would have been lovelier if we could have included a few bays in St. John.

Most BVI charters go to STJ w/o clearance from CBP. After all we have 3M illegal people crossing the boarder annually and biden.gov doesn’t give a flying bird about that. STT is half populated by illegals so why would CBP care much about some high spenders wanting to visit dive bars on STJ. I would say go for it and send your money

[seattle_sailor]

Hi Lester,

It sounds like you have sailed with CYOA out of St. Thomas in the past.

CYOA is now part of Waypoints.
https://waypoints.com/destinations/us-virgin-islands/
https://waypoints.com/breaking-news-...ly-to-the-bvi/

The Waypoints Charter boats in St. Thomas can sail into the BVI.
our USVI boats have been licensed to travel freely between the U.S. Virgin Islands and British Virgin Islands.

In Dec 2023 I chartered a Fountaine Pajot Lucia 40 - Infinite Blue - 2020 from Waypoints Frenchtown and spent a week sailing into the BVI.

Although we were able to sail from the USVI to the BVI we were not allowed to fish in the BVI.

I personally found that flying into STT and chartering out of STT was cheaper than Tortola.

Overall we had a great expereince with WayPoints and clearing in and out of customs.

As a return guest of CYOA I believe you also get a discount at Waypoints.

If you have questions I would just call them.


WayPoints Yacht Charters
Base Manager: 284-543-0336 / 386-603-4546
BVI Office Phone: 284-545-6624
Technical Assistance: 284-543-0336 / 386-603-4546 Check in / Out: Start Hme: Noon
Sleep aboard: 4:00pm
WayPoints Dock and OperaHons manager Andrew Davis:
Phone: 443-225-4355 ext 402

Good luck,
Patrick


P.S. I have attached the No go zones from Waypoints St Thomas for reference.

[Montanan]

USVI, BVI reach agreement on charter boating regulations

This does not appear to be inclusive of bareboat charters, just clothed charters

Nov 14, 2022

https://www.virginislandsdailynews.c...e0d4f7822.html

Government House announced Monday that the U.S. and British Virgin Islands have agreed to a reciprocal regulatory program for the charter boat industry after months of negotiation.

Gov. Albert Bryan Jr. and BVI Premier Natalio Wheatley have agreed to a new system for chartering, which “will permit BVI vessels to enter the USVI cruising waters, docks and marinas upon proper check-in compliance with Customs and Border Patrol stations and compliance with U.S. Coast Guard regulations upon showing of proper business license and vessel inspection in the BVI and payment of requisite entry fees or permitting in the USVI,” according to a news release.

“Likewise, the BVI will be permitting USVI-based and licensed vessels to use BVI territorial waters for day charters and term charters upon payment of the requisite fees and presentation of requisite licensing and vessel inspection documentation from the USVI. Other technical provisions also have to be developed,” the press release said.

“This reciprocal relationship restores friendly boating and use of each territory’s waters and picturesque scenery. Reciprocal arrangements for entry of water taxis and charter boats to pick up and drop off passengers in USVI and BVI waters and docks is also in process,” Bryan said in a statement. “This has been a long developing arrangement based on mutual desires to enhance friendship between the two territories.”

Wheatley, who separately addressed his constituents on Monday, said the BVI is formulating new policies and amendments to existing legislation that will recognize transient vessels, modify fees, provide greater ease of access while ensuring that the economic value of locally based charter operations is protected.

“We are grateful to those who have chosen to have their base of operations in the BVI. We recognize their important continuous contribution to the BVI economy and we in no way underestimate the value of this sector,” he said. “There is a balance to be maintained and that balance must offer advantages for BVI-based products and services within the BVI tourism space because of their commitment to the territory and product.”

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by rjwdoc

Most BVI charters go to STJ w/o clearance from CBP. (political rubbish deleted) STT is half populated by illegals so why would CBP care much about some high spenders wanting to visit dive bars on STJ. I would say go for it and send your money

To stick to the point and ignore the political nonsense, this has got to be the single worst piece of advice I have seen to date on CF. If your charter contract says that you are not permitted to cross a border, you should not cross a border. Period.

[rjwdoc]

Originally Posted by lestersails

To stick to the point and ignore the political nonsense, this has got to be the single worst piece of advice I have seen to date on CF. If your charter contract says that you are not permitted to cross a border, you should not cross a border. Period.

It is called local knowledge, boots on the ground.
It does not constitute legal advice.

[SailingHarmonie]

Originally Posted by rjwdoc

Most BVI charters go to STJ w/o clearance from CBP... [irrelevant nonsense deleted]... I would say go for it and send your money

I would say ignoring border crossing formalities even in what YOU think are de minimus situations is never, never, NEVER a good idea.

People with this attitude were the ones who caused the BVI so much trouble that a few years ago they pretty much closed their waters to transient boats to get control of the situation. Fortunately they have relaxed that a bit, but let's not be pulling the tiger's tail with dumb advice.

[rjwdoc]

Have you red my message carefully it is apparent that it only applies BVI to USVI. Not the other way around.

BVI is notorious for harsh enforcement including impounding and arrest. It all started during COVID and had nothing to do with abuse. As always the motive is money grab.

I see a lot of boats coming from Norman BVI to coral bay on STJ. They do not clear in/out for sure.
For US private boats CBP clearance is easy on the app and I think the compliance is high. For foreign flaged app is not an option.